French Claim US Campaign Is Failing

Newsday ^ | 11/4/01

[11th Earl of Mar]

PARIS (Reuters) - Nearly half the French public believes the four-week-old U.S. military action in Afghanistan is failing, a poll released Sunday showed.

The survey by pollsters Ipsos for the Journal du Dimanche weekly showed 47 percent thought the campaign was failing, with just 17 percent confident of success.

The remainder of the 969-head sample, interviewed on November 2, gave no response or said the outlook was unclear. No definition for what constituted success or failure was given.

[angry elephant]

"PARIS (Reuters) - Nearly half the French public believes the four-week-old U.S. military action in Afghanistan is failing, a poll released Sunday showed.

Yeah, and like the French have any judgment of success or failure. They're the ones who overshot their own revolution; killing the aristocracy, overrunning capitalism, and arriving straight on the socialist dung heap.

[11th Earl of Mar]

through all of the twists and turns of their history, the French have managed to maintain a recognisably French culture

A culture like spitting on the American troops that rescued them from the Nazis? We know all about that culture.

And the reason we don't like them is BECAUSE they have "mangaged to maintain" this same culture.

[freeforall]

I think we saved the euros from themselves.

[Allegra]

I've noticed lately that every time there is a post painting the Europeans as anything less than perfect, the Euro-Snots come onto the post in droves, whining and calling names. They can't handle the fact that their very existence as peaceful nations depends on the U.S. I see today we've got the whining Dutch boy and now his little French friend. Two nations that are superior at one thing: surrendering.

[freeforall]

Vichy was sort of a victory.The brave Quislings of europe have spoken all hail the wisdom of the euros.

[11th Earl of Mar]

Reminds me of a rifle for sale in an Army surplus store.

The sign said: Genuine French WWII rifle. Never fired. Only Dropped Once.

[habs4ever]

Don't be too quick to dump on the Froggies.They know they have a serious security problem, and in major cities like Lyon, Lille, Marseille, Nice and Bordeaux, you'll find the electorate is a whole lot more conservative than the crowd that reads Le Monde.Paris and Strasbourg were to be prime targets of Bin Laden, and you can bet the French security services are working overtime at rounding up the networks in the burbs around Paris that harbour these maggots.The Eiffel Tower was to be the first target back in 1994..they are in it up to their necks with us,and they know it too.

[nonliberal]

Screw ze French. We bailed their snail eating asses out of three wars. The B-2s should deliver some ordnance at the Eiffel Tower on their way home.

[LaBelleDameSansMerci]

I believe that happened--just as you describe. And she delivered the enlightening linguistic lecture in, no doubt, a very matter-of-fact manner It's so....so very French. They are never more chauvinistic than when describing the superiority of the language. And this may be another aspect of the culture rumbles between us--that American English is conquering the world. That must be especially galling to them.

Your points about the nature of our pop culture may have been valid a few years ago--but no longer, I think. You will find adolescent males gallumphing along with their baggy pants hanging down past their butt-crack and their inverted baseball cap listening to lyrics about ravaging girls and destroying whitey in any small town in Rockwell-land.

But you are correct that corporate hollywood produces for the visual appetites of the global masses. Which tells a rather ghastly truth about the dear "People"--don't you think? (You will notice that many on this forum think "conservatism" means defending corporations from criticism--at all costs; an interesting interpretation of "conservatism".)

[LaBelleDameSansMerci]

"...let me say that I find French women much more fun to be around than American women...."

Your "experience" with French women must be in the cozy, pop-corn suffused confines of the movie screen.

But it's a very sly, cunning post you've made there because I've just finished a cross-country move and your observation that American women are slovenly, overweight and loud-mouthedis too dangerously close to the truth. I didn't think it was true. I thought it was just another urban ledgend. But, although not yet universally true, it's amazingly common. Fodder for a whole 'nuther thread. In fact, I think there was an extremely depressing thread discussing why American men prefer Asian women running a few days ago.

Is there some relationship between Last Remaining Superpower-itis and catastrophically fat--not pleasingly plump or rubinesque--women?

[Angelique]

You might want to take a look at another thread where only a little over 50% of San Franciscans support the bombing of Afghanistan. And the poll of SF does not go into the depth of whether we need ground troops. As far as saving their sorry YKW...You might be advised to know that the French government wholy supports the continuation of the war, and HAS been an integral part in intelligence...BTW, LONG before 9-11.

[nancetc]

I agree with your post #44

[wildandcrazyrussian]

I agree with you that people should resist the temptation to rewrite headlines of articles. I note that you are getting the standard anti-French diatribes that are so tiresome and so, shall we say, non-educational, as an educated woman such as you would comprehend. I have figured out only recently that the vast majority of the Americans seem to think that the fact that a country surrenders in war is to be interpreted as a moral failing and done in lieu of actually fighting. What do they suppose "surrendering" to superior force entails?

I shall post for their edification (although I am sure you will find it consonant with your own knowledge) the following snippet from an article I found after about one minute's search:

The human cost of the war fell heaviest on the USSR, for which the official total, military and civilian, is given as more than 20 million killed. The Allied military and civilian losses were 44 million; those of the Axis, 11 million. The military deaths on both sides in Europe numbered 19 million and in the war against Japan, 6 million. The U.S., which had no significant civilian losses, sustained 292,131 battle deaths and 115,187 deaths from other causes. The highest numbers of deaths, military and civilian, were as follows: USSR more than 13,000,000 military and 7,000,000 civilian; China 3,500,000 and 10,000,000; Germany 3,500,000 and 3,800,000; Poland 120,000 and 5,300,000; Japan 1,700,000 and 380,000; Yugoslavia 300,000 and 1,300,000; Romania 200,000 and 465,000; France 250,000 and 360,000; British Empire and Commonwealth 452,000 and 60,000; Italy 330,000 and 80,000; Hungary 120,000 and 280,000; and Czechoslovakia 10,000 and 330,000.
**********
It seems that France may have lost a quarter of million soldiers fighting in WWII, ALMOST AS MANY AS THE UNITED STATES, with a population of about one third. I shall now do a search to see whether there really is a chapter in the French Army Manual "how to surrender graciously".

[Wonder Warthog]

"LOL. Deep frying a turkey takes not only skill, but guts as well. Probably why it never caught on in France."

Well, they had to figure out SOMETHING to do with those big crawfish boiling pots when crawfish aren't in season! Man, fried turkey is GOOD, too, yeah!

[JamminJAY]

Only thing to do is surrender I guess :P

[Polybius]

I believe that happened--just as you describe. And she delivered the enlightening linguistic lecture in, no doubt, a very matter-of-fact manner It's so....so very French.

Yes, indeed, she delivered the lecture very matter-of-factly. It was not a discussion. It was a declaration of The Truth. :-)

Your points about the nature of our pop culture may have been valid a few years ago--but no longer, I think. You will find adolescent males gallumphing along with their baggy pants hanging down past their.......

One interesting observation about "American culture" (or what Europeans believe it to be) is how European youth decrys it but rabidly embraces it at the same time. A few summers ago, we had a Spanish girl come over from Spain as an au pair. Before she left, she asked me to take her to the Mall to fill her shopping wish list for her brothers back in Spain. I learned more about American brand name snobbery in one afternoon than I had in my entire life. Carlos wanted jeans......but they had to be Levi jeans.......and not just any Levi jeans but the 678 style.......that showed the label like this.....and had buttons like that. And Enrique wanted boots......but they had to be the Harley-Davidson brand......with the label showing......with the rings that looked a certain way.....

The entire exercise was to get clothes that screamed back in Santiago de Compostela, "Juventud de Santiago, mirenme! Estoy vestido de pie a cabeza con marcas comerciales Americanas. Que guapo soy!!"

And then "los Americanos" are accused of "cultural imperialism". Go figure.

But you are correct that corporate hollywood produces for the visual appetites of the global masses. Which tells a rather ghastly truth about the dear "People"--don't you think?

I think that one of the great themes running through Western Civilization is the constant struggle to keep la gente de buena familia y la gente del pueblo from killing each other off. Say what many will about America, I believe that America accomplished this goal to a far greater extent in the XIX Century than any other Western nation. As a result, America may not be the most refined nation in the world but it has civilized, more or less, more individuals than any other nation in the Western experience.

[aquawrench]

First, is this an accurate, truthful poll? Second, who cares about polls? Third, who cares what the french think anyway? I personally love the way the campaign is going, just today Oslama bin houchin threatened muslim leaders! This is a big sign that things are going our way.

[A Navy Vet]

"...drop some boxed California wines on Paris if you really want to get their attention."

BWAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAA!

[ScholarWarrior]

They have something in common with the Taliban.
The Maginot line is like the caves they use, and will be about as useful.