Nazi Getappo transcript of Churchill warns Roosvelt of Japanese Attack on Pearl Harbor

Just heard Jim Marrs telling that in the latest (in late 90s) release of German Nazi Gestappo War documents, they show a transcript of the Gestappo intercepting a communications between Winston Churchill and President Roosvelt where Churchill warns FDR of the upcoming attack of the Japanese against Pearl Harbor.

Sounds to me that the years of rumors that the USA knew of the attack and possibly even might have encouraged the attack is at least partially true.

That kind of stuff makes you wonder about what is going on now with the war on terrorism.

Also another interesting tidbit from same source and if there are any Russians reading this I would be interested in its correctness - is that about 7 months ago Russia has created a new Coin currency - a real Gold Coin. Up to that point Russian citizens valued and held the US Dollar. Now the Russian Govt and Russian News Media are urging the Russian Citizens to trade in their US Dollars for the Gold Coin.
In June, there was also an article in the Russian Newspaper Pravda predicting the collapse of the US Dollar by the end of the summer.

A "basket" of currencies is synonomous with a "portfolio" of currencies. As far as I know, SDRs are still functioning in the IMF system. However, during the 1997 Asian currency crisis, there was some talk about how SDRs are under-utilized in the international financial system as a tool to prevent or ameliorate financial crisis. It appears that countries prefer other methods (including the introduction of currency controls as was done in Malaysia) for addresssing financial crisis. Not much different than the US government, seeking new powers in the Patriot Act when arguably law enforcement tools for finding terrorists were already in existence.

No, Robby, Stinnett's whole case hangs on two or three flimsy threads that in the end just don't exist. First, there is no evidence---NONE---that FDR had read or knew about McCollum's memo. Again, this guy was a low level commander and there is NO evidence that his memos got any further than his superiors.

ALL the actions in the McCollum memo were logical and to be expected ANYWAY: if you are expecting a tense situation, you FORWARD DEPLOY the fleet. Of course it went to Hawaii. Duh!

Second, Stinnett lies in claiming to "uncover" new information about radio traffic. In fact, there was no traffic to uncover, as I and other have shown. There WERE constant, ongoing transmissions from JAPAN, but not by ships at sea, and if you read Stinnett closely, you'll see that he has no evidence whatsoever on this. He has two transmissions dated BEFORE the fleet left. Wow. That's a shocker.

Third, Stinnett banks on the fact that you don't know the difference between an interception, a decrypt, a translation, and an analysis. EVEN IF ALL FOUR of these conditions are met, you STILL have no proof that any info reached FDR. But in fact, Stinnett doesn't have proof that ANY of the four conditions were met before Dec. 7, and we know for a fact that the translation and analysis wasn't done until 1945 in most cases.

Any good links on this subject. I am interested

I got that information from the Gold Anti-Trust Action Committee. They have email updates periodically and have watched the decline in the American SDR's lately.

I don't know about SDR's being tied to a basket of currencies, but if they are, it is probably all tied back to gold. An SDR is valued as 1/35 of an ounce of gold. The value of currencies changes by the minute, therefore a basket of currencies as a unit of value would have to be adjusted itself by the minute to have any real meaning as a unit of value, and would be a nightmare as a mechanism for setting the value of debt or assets.

See:
www.gata.org
www.goldensextant.com
www.kitco.com then click on forum for gold discussions
www.lemetropolecafe.com

Recall that the British also had a Purple machine and these funny things BJ (Black Jumbo) messages.

To this day the content of boxes (yellow in color) C/8160 and C/8161 has ever been released.

For example, box C/8160 has messages BJ 098107, 098148, 098149, 098151, and 098152 - none has seen the light of day.

Box C/8162 has a repeat of BJ 098151 (an intercepted report from the Japanese amassbor in Turkey, ...

Box C/8165 has only German ULTRA reports.

So, what is in the identified and NOT released boxes - PURPLE, FECB broken naval meassages, ... What???

Also, note that under the British Official Secrets Act, some of these documents were sealed for 75 years; some of Churchill's personal papers are sealed until 100 years after his death - he died in 1969.

Let's not forget:

Barkin, Edward S., and Meyer, L. Michael "COMINT and Pearl Harbor"FDR's Mistake" International Journal of Intelligence and Counterintelligence 2, No. 4 (Winter 1988): 513-531 [Sic - radio silence not maintanied].

Fishel, Edwin C. and Tordello, Louis W. "FDR's Mistake? Not Likely" International Journal of Intelliegence and Counterintelligence 5, No. 3 (Fall 1991): 360-372 {Sic - Strict radio silence ...}

In Kimmel Papers: Letter written by James G. Stahlman (old friend of Secretary Knox from newspaper days together) ... FDR, Stimson, Marshall, Stark, and Hopkins all at White House. But then his wife was just back Florida, or was it a dress sale, ... he was at home. Or was he at the WWI Reunion at the University Club (16th Street). What did the Washington Herald report???... Or what did Marshall say under oath at the Congressional Proceedings. And, of course, Stark was at a performance of the "Student Prince" ..., or

Joseph Lieb, Hustler, December 1983 "Pearl Harbor: What the Media Won';t Tell You." [Sic, A tad bit hard too find.], or ...

Admiral Hart's remarks, "Cruise of the Lanikai: Incitement to War, Tolley, Kemp, Naval Institute Press, Annapolis, MD, 1973.

Or, Tansill, Morgenstern, Beach, Flynn, Martin, Feis, Fehrnebach, Beard, Tolland, Prange, Wohlsletter, Clausen, ..., SRH-051 (Briggs Interview), ... SRH-405 ...,

Or, ....

Prange's "At Dawn We Slept: The Untold Stroy of Pearl Harbor" is quite an interesting publishing story in itself.

It was really completed by two of Prange's students [Donald Goldstein and Katerine V. Dillon] - Prange died in May 1980.

The appendix they added attempted to refute all revisionist claims and concluded with "in a thorough search of more than 30 years, including all publications released up to May 1, 1983, we have not discovered ..." Their claim was not quite true ... They never saw SRH-051, for example.

And as the years have passed more and more materials have been released ...

Stinnett's paperback is likely the most current in the US.

Timothy Wilford's Master Thesis (University of Ottawa) in History is noted in Stinnett's Afterword source notes ...

John Costello still "pulls" the Foreign Office chain ... gets ... " release is not in the national interest at this time."

I surmise that there is an explicit agreement between US/England/Austrialia/Canada/Dutch/ ... that the release of pre-Pearl Harbor materials be timed and coordinated together.

Psst,

Bomb plots, light signals (ending Dec. 6th), Japanese spy in consulate. FBI and Washington knew. Did Kimmel/Short???

Where is JD #7001 (Japanese Dispatch #7001)? Layton shows index with it missing. SRH-051 (declassified March 11, 1980 interview) has Briggs recalling he intercepted it [People were on "alert" to look for same you may recall]. Safford says he saw it; Kramer changed his mind, and Clausen proved it never existed. Don't forget Lt. Linn's comments, also.

After Toland's Postscript (second edition) ... SS Lurline radio log got "legs" out of the Archives.

And did Nave and Mortimer get it "right" on FECB's success in breaking Japanese naval codes? What happened to those British warships (Repulse, Prince of Wales)? Was the delay in intercept/decypher/ ... four (4) hours too long a time to save them ... or just poor CAP? ... Comments?

According to the recent book by David Stafford, Roosevelt and Churchill: Men of Secrets, spoke to each other by telephone throughout WWII, starting with the Iroquois incident shortly after the war started in 1939.

To quote p. 22 of the book: "This [the facts that the calls were scrambled and the two men were careful about discussing any sensitive matters] did not prevent the Germans from intercepting some of the communications and making transcripts. In 1943 a special intelligence unit of the German Postal and Telegraph Service intercepted a call that Churchill placed to Roosevelt to discuss the armistice they were secretly negotiating with Italy -- 'incontrovertible evidence, the Germans reported, 'that secret negotiations between the Anglo-Americans and the Italians are taking place.'"

In fact, Churchill phoned Roosevelt the evening of Pearl Harbor day, Dec. 7, 1941, to get confirmation that the Pearl Harbor attack had occurred. See pp. 114-15 of the Stafford book.

I think it is unlikely that Churchill would have given this particular sensitive matter of an impending Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor to FDR over the telephone, but I would certainly like to see the evidence. What I have always understood was a written message went from Churchill to Roosevelt just before we presented what was in effect an ultimatum to Japan in late November 1941. This is the only piece of the Churchill-Roosevelt correspondence that is still being kept secret. It obviously must have contained something extremely sensitive or embarrassing.

If you look closely at the blackboard listing the names of the people with access to Magic intelligence that appears early in the movie Tora Tora Tora, you will see LCDR Arthur McCollum's name. He, along with FDR, was one of less than a dozen people cleared to receive this intelligence. Given the particularly close relationship that FDR had with the Office of Naval Intelligence, I regard it as virtually certain that LCDR McCollum, head of the Far East Desk of that office, personally knew FDR. One can imagine all sorts of ways in which McCollum's thoughts could have been communicated to FDR, even if it wasn't done officially by the book.

That's the case that Stinnett makes, that FDR dishonestly got us into WWII, but that he was right to get us in. Capt. Beach made that case in Scapegoats a few years ago. It all depends on what your moral judgment is, and what you think might have happened had history gone differently. Myself, I think it was perfectly possible for FDR to persuade the American people to enter the war by speaking honestly, and that his failure to do so set a disastrous precedent.

Also see Kahn, David, "The Code-Breakers - The Comprehensive History of Secret Communication from Ancient Times to the Internet, Revised and Updated," Scribner, New York, 1996. pp 550-560. [See page 557 - Transcript of a German descrambling of an intercepted Churchill trans-atlantic conversation - date is July 23, 1942.]

As you know, Stinnett lists thirty-six (36) people as cleared for Military and Diplomatic intercepts - McCollum (and his assistant Boone) are there.

As an FYI, Clausen "Final Judgement" lists the " ... Fourteen Men Most Responsible for the Disaster at Pearl Harbor..." ...

The Navy decrypts were brought to the White House and very few of the inner circle advisors had actual access to the messages. Harry Hopkins, who was the closest advisor was removed from the distribution list since he was not "securing" the information so he was taken off the distribution list. Might this have contributed?

The tactic of warning Kimmel without the detailed "background" of the intelligence is what left the commander on the scene(Kimmel) without the latitude to command creatively.

.."Dishonely got us into the war"

The America First Movement was centered in the Midwest and was headed by Henry Ford and Charles Lindeberg. I wonder if FDR could have used the "bully pulpit" to convince the citizens and Congress that our national interests were threatened. He certainly had intelligence sources that reported from Europe and Asia but it would have been quite a leap to obtaining a Declaration of War.

If we accept that FDR was able to read the history and determine a future course then it is likely that, (after beginning the Lend Lease program), that we had to pick sides and save Western Civilization. This conclusion meant armed involvment and an ignition source was needed. In the encyclopedia it is stated that

.."To protect the supplies against German submarines, U.S. destroyers began escorting convoys of Allied ships part way across the Atlantic. In the process the destroyers helped pinpoint the location of submarines, which Allied warships duly attacked. Roosevelt did not tell the people about America's unneutral actions on the high seas. When a German submarine fired a torpedo at the American destroyer Greer in September 1941, he feigned surprise and outrage and ordered U. S. warships to shoot on sight at hostile German ships. By December the United States and Germany were engaged in an undeclared war on the Atlantic."

Did FDR finess us into the War? Yes. Was it the right thing to do? Yes. This is what a president is supposed to do. Japan's behavior was more egregious, therefore it was an obvious choice to trigger the entry into the war from that side, (note: we had been fighting the Japanese throught the agency of Chennault's Flying Tigers and our alliance with mainland China was well known to the Japanese.) Since there long term goal was China,Indochina, Singapore, Indonesia and eventually Australia to gather up their pieces of the British, Portugese, Dutch and French colonies it became necessary to neutralize the US military influence in the Pacific.

Ah, yes ... "Harry the Hop" of "tax, tax, ... spend, spend, ... elect, elect!" fame ...

Just who again was with FDR when he said " ... this means war" ... Harry the Hop I believe.

The very same Harry the Hop that ran the Lenin-Lease program which sent nuclear materials to the USSR in 1943 - i.e., before the Trinity test.

If FDR "knew" it ... bet on Harry the Hop also "knowing" it - probably before FDR did in fact.

Have you ever read America's Neutrality Act of 1939?

Convoying [patrolling], ... illegal. But that never stopped FDR ... oh, yes, let's stack the Supreme Court. How dare those justices declare NRA, WPA, ... un-constitutional ... so who do they think they are!!!

Your " ... save Western Civilization." After Tehran and Yalta ... you may want to re-think that. Namely, what did Stalin get ... terrority and people and ... How many private meetings (i.e., without Churchill) did FDR have with Stlain again. Also, what happened in China. Truman at Potsdam ... for Stalin it was "fish in a barrel."

Did FDR win the war for democracy ... or communism.

How many USSR agents were in FDR administration ... Hopkins, Hiss, ...

You were saying ...?

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