Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Empire America? - YES!
PipeBombNews.com ^ | October 9, 2001 | William A. Mayer - Editor & Publisher, PipeBombNews.com

Posted on 10/09/2001 11:25:39 AM PDT by johnqueuepublic

PipeBombNews Editorial

~ Empire America? – Yes! ~

By William A. Mayer - Editor & Publisher

October 9, 2001

“...Cold, poverty, and a life of danger and fatigue fortify the strength and courage of barbarians. In every age they have oppressed the polite and peaceful nations of China, India, and Persia, who neglected, and still neglect, to counter-balance these natural powers by the resources of military art. The warlike states of antiquity, Greece, Macedonia, and Rome, educated a race of soldiers; exercised their bodies, disciplined their courage, multiplied their forces by regular evolutions, and converted the iron which they possessed into strong and serviceable weapons. But this superiority insensibly declined with their laws and manners: and the feeble policy of Constantine and his successors armed and instructed, for the ruin of the empire, the rude valour of the barbarian mercenaries...” - From Edward Gibbon's "The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire" - 1765

It is with a thousand years of perspective and hindsight that Gibbon, with us looking over his shoulder two centuries later, restates the simple law of the jungle - kill or be killed.

Failure to internalize and act upon the fact that planet Earth is more often than not a cruel and factious place is more than foolish, it is suicidal.

Critics from the squishy right, mostly champions of libertarian thought, counsel a retreat from any American role that even approaches that of global policeman.

Populist wing nuts like Pat Buchanan argue that America can simply walk away from foreign squabbles, using the verbiage from George Washington’s farewell address that warned of “entangling foreign alliances”

Taking a much more aggressive tact, the left has a long history of indicting the West and especially America as colonialist plunderers of other cultures, imposing hegemony via economic and military power.

While this accusation can be dismissed as an essentially ideological attack it is now time to turn the argument on its head and actually embrace the kernel of the concept, and the sooner the better.

From the time the Roman republic was declared in 509 BC to it’s ultimate sacking by the Visigoths in 410 AD the Roman Empire, which at its zenith spanned over 2000 miles in breadth, for the first time in the history placed the most desirable and arable land in the old world under the control of a centralized modern government - a system which forged this land and its inhabitants into a supra almost federal type organization, elevating it far above the surrounding barbarian world.

How did they do this?

The Roman Empire was willed into being by force of personality and force of arms.

Above all it was successful, guaranteeing relative peace (or what could pass for it in a world primarily populated by, what only can be described as, quasi-human beasts) for nearly a millennium.

When the empire failed it ushered in a thousand years of darkness and horror.

Yes the Romans were oft times cruel themselves, but their cruelty generally had a purpose. It was the exception to the rule, not the personification of it.

Caesar Augustus and Julius Caesar were the two most remarkable men in the history of the ancient world, making the flowering of Rome complete.

America also has a chance to flower anew.

America has a meeting with destiny, history and events beyond her control have demanded her presence.

To say that we stand at a crossroads is trite, but indeed we do so stand.

We have been forced to learn hard truths in a very short time.

We have learned that we are alone in this world; that we are hated by those jealous of our standard of living and because we have had the temerity to follow an older more benevolent prophet.

We have been shown that our complex society, though stunningly diverse and rich beyond belief, is so delicately balanced - so free - that it is in many ways as fragile as a mayfly.

We have been brought face to face with the fact that this delicate creature is now pursued by the hounds of hell; illiterate barbarians barely capable of signing their own names, who use a 7th century text to justify extermination of the non-Islamic world.

It is as if we are confronted by escapees from some insane time warp who have taken advantage of our good nature, our belief in equality and our dedication to civil liberties and freedom.

If we cower from this challenge, if we pull inward we will be picked off one by one, community by community.

We will become targets of opportunity succumbing with increasing rapidity as weapons of greater and greater power become available to agents of terror, plunging us into a an abyss from which escape is unlikely.

There can only be one response – to embrace power, to accept the role for which we have been unknowingly grooming ourselves for 200 years.

We must establish a Pax Americana – a worldwide dominion – an Empire – hard when need be - but fair and leavened with our deep regard for liberty.

We must create our own martial culture, appropriate for the times, as did the Romans.

Our young people must be educated and inculcated into this culture.

We must once again strive for excellence, OUR test scores in mathematics, science, reading and history must become the standard by which achievement is measured.

The pledge of allegiance must be said - with purpose - in every classroom in the United States, abstinence will be tolerated , but doing so will reflect poorly on those so choosing.

We must develop and deploy the weapons of the 21st century, directed energy weapons, space based lasers, ultra supersonic fighters and bombers - whatever advanced technological means whereby power, authority and in the case of attack - revenge - can be projected.

We must not strike indiscriminately at innocents, but we will not let their presence shield our enemies.

A very good symbolic first step might be to send the UN packing; it has become a symbol of anti-Americanism. It exudes racism, is corrupt to its core and is anti-Christian and anti-Semitic to boot - send it to Chernobyl where its red glow will then match its ideology.

Rome does not consult Babylon on matters of foreign policy.

Grasping at the mantle of such awesome power brings with it the attendant duty of exercising it in a way consistent with the values that have preserved us to this point.

Our founding fathers could never have conceived the world in which we live, but they would never forgive us if we departed from the ideals that they died for.

By observing and acting upon what is best in our heritage we can avoid becoming merely another Reich - smug, egocentric and eventually despotic.

It is a heady challenge, one which is unique in the history of the modern world, but one which we MUST accept - the portent of allowing fanatical madmen to wage a continuous jihad against us, with the full array of modern weapons, is too terrible an alternative to contemplate.



TOPICS: Editorial; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS:
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-8081-89 next last
To: johnqueuepublic
That was 200 years ago and we have matured. Without an American empire, 9/11s will continue to happen over and over again.

There's good evidence that the opposite is true. A younger, ruthless empire might stop terrorism (with a high price in personal liberty), but an aging empire such as ours has very little chance.
I think our dilemna is similar to the aging Roman empire, our citizens are too fat, dumb and happy.

What happens if the Saudi princes are overthrown and the oil shut off by Islamic nutcases? Under your theory we simply give up, dont we? Under a policy of empire we take over the oil fields and survive.

You either buy oil from the Islamic nutcases and keep your SUV, or get a honda and run it on Colorado shale oil at $2.50 a gallon, your choice.

21 posted on 10/09/2001 12:28:33 PM PDT by palmer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: johnqueuepublic
I think if Sadam or anyone took over the oil fields, we would buy oil from him, if the price was too high, then we would find a cheaper source. Its better to let the market decide these things than the sword.
22 posted on 10/09/2001 12:32:17 PM PDT by kd1pl@nationlink.com
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: Austin Willard Wright
World protector? Does this include: etc.

No, it mostly includes things like working with Winston Churchill to save western civilization. Your point is well taken, though. Perhaps I should have written that some of our finest moments, as well as some of our darkest moments, have been when we have participated actively in international affairs.

23 posted on 10/09/2001 12:34:44 PM PDT by ignatz_q
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: johnqueuepublic
Pat Buchanan's argues that America can simply walk away from foreign squabbles, using the verbiage from George Washington’s farewell address that warned of “entangling foreign alliances." GO PAT GO!!!
24 posted on 10/09/2001 12:39:13 PM PDT by Greg Weston
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: johnqueuepublic
What happens if the Saudi princes are overthrown and the oil shut off by Islamic nutcases?

I guess they will just drink the oil and not make any money off it won't they?

25 posted on 10/09/2001 12:42:40 PM PDT by Greg Weston
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: Greg Weston
Greg

Pat B is a fruitcake.

What has he ever done but flap his lips?

Never elected to office, he was a freakin' speechwriter for Nixon - that is his sole accomplishment.

Oh, i forgot his appearances on crossfire and his anti-Semitic remarks

Buchannan is wrong almost every time he opens his mouth

Yes, by all means Go Pat Go....yes go Pat go... go far, far away and shut your pie hole while you are at it.

26 posted on 10/09/2001 12:46:24 PM PDT by johnqueuepublic
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: Rustynailww
If we asserted ourselves the U.N. could do nothing about it. It ultimately exists at our pleasure.
27 posted on 10/09/2001 12:50:56 PM PDT by ewchil
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: johnqueuepublic
Hate to break the news to you but Star Wars was fictional, Darth was a guy wearing a plastic helmet.

It’s a metaphor, the purpose of which is to point out that Empires are Bad things that freedom loving American’s don’t like.

You might want to recall such useful historical tidbits like:

To sum up: Empire=Bad

I hope that clears things up for you.

28 posted on 10/09/2001 12:51:35 PM PDT by Gerfang
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: Gerfang
Gerfang

You are attempting to committ revisionism of the lowest order, comparing a potential American empire with the Nazis and the Spanish is pretty silly dont you think.

There is the term called "moral relativism" that you should really investigate.

We are better than them.

ps - What happened in the wake of the British Empire? I say look to Africa for your answer - they are MUCH better off today dont you think?

LOL

29 posted on 10/09/2001 1:00:14 PM PDT by johnqueuepublic
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: johnqueuepublic
I don't agree with Pat on some things, but on foreign policy he's one of the few that makes any sense. Our Globalist world cop policy has been a miserable failure.

Knock em flat Pat!

30 posted on 10/09/2001 1:08:20 PM PDT by Greg Weston
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: Greg Weston
Greg Patt B is an isolationist, when will you Libertarians get it?
31 posted on 10/09/2001 1:23:51 PM PDT by johnqueuepublic
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: johnqueuepublic
You are attempting to committ revisionism of the lowest order, comparing a potential American empire with the Nazis and the Spanish is pretty silly dont you think.

And how precisely am I revising the history of an American empire, which hasn’t occurred? I am not committing revisionism, I am warning you that you advocate a counterproductive, generally unworkable, and morally reprehensible course of action.

There is the term called "moral relativism" that you should really investigate.

Lets see here:

  1. The Romans invaded other nations, overthrew their governments and enslaved their people.
  2. The Spanish invaded other nations, overthrew their governments and enslaved their people.
  3. The English invaded other nations, overthrew their governments and enslaved their people.
  4. The Nazis invaded other nations, overthrew their governments and enslaved their people.
  5. The Russians invaded other nations, overthrew their governments and enslaved their people.
That’s bad.

You suggest that America invade other nations, overthrow their governments and enslave their people.

But that’s good.

And I’m the moral relativist?

We are better than them.

If we do the same things they did, then we are the same as they were.

ps - What happened in the wake of the British Empire? I say look to Africa for your answer - they are MUCH better off today dont you think?

I’d say it’s not much different from Europe after Rome fell. I say this because empires tend to decimate the cultures of the peoples they enslave. This goes right back to my thesis:

Empire=Bad

Got it yet?

32 posted on 10/09/2001 1:38:00 PM PDT by Gerfang
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

Comment #33 Removed by Moderator

To: johnqueuepublic
bump
34 posted on 10/09/2001 1:45:19 PM PDT by Red Jones
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

Comment #35 Removed by Moderator

To: johnqueuepublic
Mr.Clark said it well in post 7: Empire almost always leads to the end of freedom. Gotta pay for it with taxes and bodies. But let me go down through the article and point a few things out.

· They ordered society from top to bottom, training young minds and bodies together at rigorous levels

Indoctrination to state ideals. Who sets them? How are they enforced?

· They developed new concepts of governmental organization and integration

What is being advocated for our "new concept of governmental organization"? Not possible under our current form, let alone the one this country is founded under.

· They invented the science of military tactics - analyzing the lessons of previous wars and battles

We develope tactics as the technology developes. Of course, guerrilla warfare works well in spite of technololgy. Fighting it is mighty ugly and isn't possible in a free society.

· They developed the idea of public works and public sanitation

Well, our government is really into taxing it's citizens to pay for "public works". Of course, the surcharge is mighty high. But that is what socialism is all about: Rule of the masses by an elite, using the "common good" as the rational.

· They were able to instill among the citizenry, and above all the martial class, absolute devotion to duty and fidelity of purpose

Having been a member of the martial class myself, I would say that we still had that at least up to the clinton years. Of course, the "wanna be" crowd wants that feeling without having to personally pay the price. After all, that's what kids are for.

Above all it was successful, guaranteeing relative peace (or what could pass for it in a world primarily populated by, what only can be described as, quasi-human beasts) for nearly a millennium.

Peace enforced by "police action". Peaceful as long as the slaves to the state don't revolt. Then it's death to those who oppose the state. Which is anything but peaceful.

the Romans were oft times cruel themselves, but their cruelty generally had a purpose.

Cruelty is ok as long as you have a purpose... Interesting way of looking at it. Not valid, but interesting.

America has a meeting with destiny, history and events beyond her control have demanded her presence.

Where have I heard this one before... "We MUST rule the world, it is our DESTINY!"

We have learned that we are alone in this world;

Really? We have 300 million people in this country. The world's population is what...4 billion? Hardly "alone".

our complex society, , is so delicately balanced - so free - that it is in many ways as fragile as a mayfly.

Not as long as our citizenry is armed. As long as individuals in this country have weapons, we cannot be defeated. Destroyed, maybe, defeated, never.

If we cower from this challenge, if we pull inward we will be picked off one by one, community by community.

Yea, right. A bunch of people with boxcutters are going to destroy us. I doubt that they will do it, but a bunch of politicians who have been waiting for an opportunity to push a global power agenda may well succeed.

There can only be one response – to embrace power, to accept the role for which we have been unknowingly grooming ourselves for 200 years.

To become that which we have fought against whenever we come up against it: authoritarian government.

We must establish a Pax Americana – a worldwide dominion – an Empire – hard when need be - but fair and leavened with our deep regard for liberty.

The same liberty that is out the door as soon as the martial society described is implemented?

We must create our own martial culture, appropriate for the times, as did the Romans. Our young people must be educated and inculcated into this culture.

Once again, what happens if you don't spout the party line? Who determines the agenda? How is this enforced?

We must develop and deploy the weapons ...whatever advanced technological means whereby power, authority and in the case of attack - revenge - can be projected.

We must be able to destroy any who oppose our agenda.

We must not strike indiscriminately at innocents, but we will not let their presence shield our enemies.

Ie: kill them all, let G*d sort them out.

Rome does not consult Babylon on matters of foreign policy.

Don't expect to have a voice in matters of foreign policy. Your betters will make decisions for you.

Grasping at the mantle of such awesome power brings with it the attendant duty of exercising it in a way consistent with the values that have preserved us to this point.

Even though exercising it trashes those values.

Our founding fathers could never have conceived the world in which we live,

Yes they did. That is why they put the government they founded under control of the citizens.

but they would never forgive us if we departed from the ideals that they died for.

That's true. Of course, that is what this entire article is advocating: departing from those ideals. Of course, it's "for the common good".

By observing and acting upon what is best in our heritage we can avoid becoming merely another Reich - smug, egocentric and eventually despotic.

REALLY??!! This article is advocating just that: ignoring what is best in our heritage and becoming smug, egocentric and, in order to implement all of this, despotic.

This is the same crap spouted by every dictator that shows up on the scene. Change very little, and it could be used by any one of history's most notorious.

If you support our current effort against the Taliban, then you are in effect supporting an aspect of empire.

Our current effort against the Taliban is the result of p-poor foreign policy over the last decade (at the least). It is a good example of what happens when we play "empire games". Unfortunatly the situation has come to this: a position where we have no other choice other than to make war to protect ourselves. A good close look at our policies (and why they were implemented) will show that all is not as it seems.

The founding fathers argued against foreign entanglements only because we were too weak to have our focus taken off the goal of establishing a new government.

No, they argued against foreign entanglements because they result in bigger government that has to take more freedom away from it's people in order to "protect them" from the messes those entanglements result in.

That was 200 years ago and we have matured.

It's been 200 years and we the people are firmly under the control of a quasi-socialist democratic government that has little in common with that described by our founding documents.
(The senate report of 1973 said straight up that the American people have not lived under the protection of the Constitution and Bill of Rights since 1933. We are seeing the results of that now.)

Without an American empire, 9/11s will continue to happen over and over again.

WITH an American empire, 9/11 WILL continue to happen. American empire policy IS one of the primary reasons 9/11 occured.

...we cant continue down the same old path and survive.

THAT's probably true. The world is a BIG place. We have empowered enemies in all directions. We give them technology and the economy to purchase it and we give them the tools that their propaganda needs to inflame the emotions of their people against us. Foreign policy needs to be looked at, hard and soon. (It may already be too late, it's difficult to put the skunk back in the bag.)

What happens if the Saudi princes are overthrown and the oil shut off by Islamic nutcases?

How about we develope our own resources? How about we quit selling to them? How about we quit developing their oilfields? How about we quit feeding their people?

Under your theory we simply give up, dont we?

Hardly.

Under a policy of empire we take over the oil fields and survive.

Under your policy, we make war on anyone that might object to our taking another country's resources. And, (for instance),we may well get wiped out by a Russia/China alliance that is concerned about an American empire coming for them next.

There are better ways. Dropping taxes back to early levels and allowing American citizens to be even more productive than ever would be a good start. Not sending our tax money and food to prop up socialist and dictator ruled governments all over the world would also help. When the rest of the world sees how well the TRUE "American Way works, -work hard, get to keep your money, invest in your future, etc- (instead of the democratic socialism that our government is pushing us toward) they start putting pressure on THEIR government leaders to do the same.

It would beat putting the American version of Hitler, Stalin, or Mao in charge.
We've seen what happens when that takes place.
36 posted on 10/09/2001 2:03:43 PM PDT by freefly
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: Mr.Clark
Empire almost always leads to the end of freedom.

Empire also always leads to the end of Empire... and the aftermath in the world's history has never been pretty....

Line 'em up and count 'em... Greek, Roman, Ottoman, Soviet, Brtish (BTW, we have simply inherited the British Empire in the Middle East)....

Ane yes, the fall of the British Empire was not pretty, either... particularly in Africa.

37 posted on 10/09/2001 2:06:04 PM PDT by Beenliedto
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: johnqueuepublic
Hate to break the news to you but Star Wars was fictional,

So was 1984....

BTW, it's almost uncanny how so much of the science fiction written over the last decades has evolved into fact....

Anyway, I think we can draw on history to prove the point.

It's just that now the prospects are Orwellian.

38 posted on 10/09/2001 2:17:11 PM PDT by Beenliedto
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: Gerfang
...... an American empire, which hasn’t occurred?

That's the sole point on which you and I might disagree....

It's an empire. alright... has been since the days of Wilson.

39 posted on 10/09/2001 2:22:32 PM PDT by Beenliedto
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: johnqueuepublic
Critics from the squishy right, mostly champions of libertarian thought, counsel a retreat from any American role that even approaches that of global policeman.

Unfortunately, being a global policeman usually means that the jobs of judge and jury go along with the role of policeman, and imposing western ideas of justice, crime and punishment in non-western locations sometimes gets us into more trouble than it may be worth. Are your jet commercial airplanes more likely to be crashed into your supersized office buildings by people who are ticked at you because you stuck your nose in their business, or because you refused to stick your nose in their business?

Libertarians have no problem with the idea of being adequately prepared for a war waged on them by someone else, but are not real fond of drawing someone else's fire because they intervened where they weren't wanted in the first place. If we're determined to annouce ourselves as being the friend of a country with many enemies, then we'd best expect to gain a whole bunch of new enemies to go along with that friend.

How many countries have announced themselves to be the mortal enemies of Switzerland?

40 posted on 10/09/2001 2:28:25 PM PDT by CubicleGuy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-8081-89 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson