Pilots threaten to stop service if kept unarmed

Union Leader ^ | 10/05/01 | KATHRYN MARCHOCKI

[kattracks]

Commercial airline pilots will be asked to suspend air service if they cannot have trained, armed pilots in the cockpits, a New Hampshire pilot said.

A resolution that will be circulated among the various councils of the 67,000-member Air Line Pilots Association this month asks federal regulations be changed to allow for the voluntary arming of flight crew members, Robert Giuda, a United Airlines captain of Warren said.

“Had we had armed pilots on Sept. 11, we wouldn’t have the horrific tragedy that we’re dealing with at this point,” Giuda said of the four hijacked jetliners.

Pilots would first get training in firearms by the FBI and would use their weapons only to defend against an attempted breach of the cockpit, the resolution said.

The resolution also calls for federal licensing of pilots to carry concealed weapons and for the government to indemnify air carriers and their employees against the legitimate use of a firearm.

If those steps are not carried out, the resolution calls for “a national suspension of air service, at such times and in such manner as is deemed appropriate by the leadership of the Air Line Pilots Association.”

“We’re hearing members of Congress say they don’t want a bunch of armed hooligans running around,” said Giuda, a New Hampshire state representative.

He said there was “no more professionalized, highly-scrutinized group of people in the world than airline pilots.”

The security of the flight deck cannot depend solely on armed sky marshals, he said.

Sky marshals can be picked out of a crowd and, if overpowered, would provide a hijacker with a weapon, Giuda said.

“It’s time to throw the gauntlet to the mat. We are going to get politicized into unarmed cockpits and then we’ll get shot with the guns the marshals used because they will be taken away from them,” he added.

Arming pilots introduces the element of “risk, fear and doubt” into the mind of a potential hijacker, he said.

[DouglasKC]

Good! This is the best way to ensure security against the type of attacks we just saw.

[steve-b]

First of all, arming the pilot and copilot isn't going to do much good if it's easy for someone to break into the cockpit and surprise them. I think everyone here would agree to that. Arming the pilot and copilot is just a part--but an important one--of an overall cockpit security plan.

That's the flip side of the remarks in my last post. A gun isn't a magic talisman of protection, any more than it's a magic talisman of evil. It's a tool, which has to be used properly.

[Poohbah]

I'm supposed to be comfortable with the idea that just because some jughead will be "FBI trained," that he is suddenly competent to wield a firearm in close quarters? I can see the post-mortem on the event: pilots each fire an entire magazine at a hijacker 2 feet away and manages to not get a single hit...terrorist proceeds to b!tch-slap the pilots to death.

A possible solution: put a better lock on the cockpit door, mason jars for the cockpit crew to piddle in, a small airlock for transferring food/paperwork to/from the cabin, and a sky marshal in the cockpit jump seat. Said sky marshal would be trained at least as well as Delta Force or SEAL Team 6. His job: if someone forces the cockpit door open, SHOOT THE BAD GUY AND CLOSE THE DOOR. Repeat as needed while the pilot gets the plane onto the ground posthaste.

[Publius6961]

“We’re hearing members of Congress say they don’t want a bunch of armed hooligans running around,” said Giuda, a New Hampshire state representative.

This is proof of the sorry state to which we've come.
The standards for political service has deteriorated so any idiot can represent other idiots, and it shows.

Long on socialist rhetoric and short on common sense.
Now, if this idiot were packing, then I'd worry...

[Poohbah]

Many flights transit heavily populated areas, but the most disastrous accidental crashes have never had this kind of death toll. To inflict these kinds of casualties, EVERYTHING needs to be deliberate.

And armed passengers can do nothing against a bomb in the luggage compartment, which would be the most cost-effective way to execute your proposed strategy.

[biblewonk]

“We’re hearing members of Congress say they don’t want a bunch of armed hooligans running around,” said Giuda, a New Hampshire state representative.

This is really bad. Did some idiot in congress really say this!!!???

[Lady GOP]

Commercial airline pilots will be asked to suspend air service if they cannot have trained, armed pilots in the cockpits, a New Hampshire pilot said.

Yes! Live free or die.

[prambo]

Pray tell, what "...cooler heads..."?

Sarah Brady, John Ashcroft, The Violence Policy Center, peace protesters?

How about??? - ME!!!!!

I haven't shot a thing since this happened, I MUST have a cool head.

I decide that ALL citizens can carry handguns on ALL flights.

There, it's decided - go away.

prambo

[chuknospam]

But, but...if we arm pilots, we'll have to arm bus drivers, then the cab drivers and pizza delivery guys. Before you know it, we'll have an armed citizenry! We can't do that--why, it's downright CONSTITUTIONAL!!

AMEN!!! I won't fly ever again unless the pilot or myself is armed!! Perferably both of us! Until then, I'll drive, locked & loaded.

[longleaf]

No matter what you say, pilots will eventually have to be allowed this option because airlines will notice, once the bailout runs out, that there are a lot of people out here like me who will not fly again, unless it is an absolute emergency, until they are. Economics will overpower the anti-gunners on this one.

[Fixit]

Bump!

[Fixit]

Bump!

[RoseyT]

You're prepared to have passenger jets shot down by our fighters if terrorists gain control of the jets, but you don't think it is justified for the pilots to constitute a last line of defense in the cockpits before a jet is shot down.

Brilliant observation!

[Let's Roll]

"Who elected them to make" policy decisions? I think they are following the law - natural law. I believe we are talking about the pilots' life and death here. But why should that entitle them to an opinion? /sarcasm>

[steve-b]

OK, your world has enough "Delta Force or SEAL Team 6" people to put one on every flight without bankrupting the airlines. What color is the sky there?

[harpseal]

think they should be fired if they refuse to fly. Who elected them to make these policy decisions? They are 10 folks who would be eager to take the place of each of them, sans guns unless and until the public square deemed it prudent

Maybe they will be and we will see how many of the public will wish to fly with brand new replacement pilots. As for me I am not flying until there are armed pilots and a whole bunch more armed honest Americans up on the plane than just a lone sky marshall.

Stay well - Stay safe - stay armed - Yorktown