Posted on 07/22/2024 7:37:18 AM PDT by SJackson
Yes, that was an aspect of Nazi rule, but one of many.
The author, Götz Aly, the descendant of a Turk (the arch-enemy of Christian Europe), is a dyed in the wool Germanophobe, and his book has been called a rehash of Daniel Goldhagen‘s theses in HWE, but he uses the materialistic and economic motive, excluding every other possible reason.
London historian Adam Tooze criticized Aly‘s single minded approach, as did Hans-Ulrich Wehler and Michael Wildt, who are German historians (rather leftist themselves).
If you ask me, Aly is not really a good historian, but more of a leftist ideologue, to whom, as to Marx, materialism matters most.
A real historian, however, has to consider every single aspect of his subject. Especially, he should do research without anger and zeal, as we Germans say, i.e. he should not come with preconceived notions and look for facts which corroborate them. Because under these circumstances, research turns into ideology.
I am somewhat aware of the criticism of Aly’s book. But my point was (and I think it is valid) that the National Socialists made of point of seeming to take care of ‘real’ Germans. I think everyone has a hard time wrapping their minds around the fact that Germans were loyal and willing to die for the regime up until the very end.
Of course the Germans fought tooth and nail against the Soviets; they knew that payback was going to be very unpleasant. But they also fought until the end in the west.
The National Socialists were in power for just about the same time as FDR (only weeks difference) and American were sad at FDR’s demise, but I’ve never heard of suicides over it. Good German young men, brought up in good Lutheran or Catholic homes did their bit in the camps and atrocities on the battlefields.
I think Aly does a good job of describing how German Jews were slowly cut off from the rest of German society and economy, not unlike a constrictor tightening up its squeeze every time a breath is taken. And then after the Jews were dead and gone, all of their ‘stuff’ was auctioned off to the highest bidder.
Well, I would say that in the camps, there were the worst of the bunch.
And when your country is under attack, you do your best to fight for your loved ones, though you my not like, or even hate, your political system. Soviet soldiers did, and Axis soldiers too, as soon as their countries were affected full force.
Yes, that is one of the reasons why Russian and German veterans got quite often well along - on a personal level. They were in a similar situation.
Yes, and I regretably cannot be impartial, as I consider this dirty Turk Aly a godforsaken leftist swine, as well as a Nazi‘s son (that says it all about these foolish racial theories, on which Nazi ideology was officially based, and which had more than enough supporters in other countries. At the top, of the Nazi state, many didn’t believe in parts of it themselves)
My family saw the seamier side of the regime, I lost two family members to the Nazi terror, thus, unlike that Aly, I see no reason to spit on my heritage, my people and the whole two millennia of her history.
Maybe that explains his hatred… I should have been a psychologist 😀
P.S. :just do be absolutely clear: the years between 1933 and 45 were the worst in my people‘s history- hands down - but still I am a limb on her body. For better and for worse, till death us do part…Aly could do something I never could, he could emigrate to Turkey, where he could be among his people. Turkish nationality law has a clause to provide for a case like his (as do the nationality laws of so many European countries, to provide for their diasporas in times of need).
yes. in the early 1900’s the communist movement attracted some Jews because it spoke about removing oppression (there was a lot of it) and human dignity and fraternity and world peace (all Jewish moral values excepting only that communism is not how Judaism hopes they’ll be brought about)
Bernie the Red is one of the old (very old) “last commies” in that he was infatuated with the Soviet Union (even vacationed there with his wife to set up a sister city)... ...and of course the Soviet Union was America’s chief ally in WW2, with the Soviets losing 27,000,000 people to USA’s 405,399). Naturally all during WW2 there was little or no reporting about Russia/Soviet Union being anything but our ally.
The odd thing is not that he learned the attractive aspects of the communist message as a youth. The odd thing is that he has never grown up and realized what a disaster communism has been in actual life, in the real world. Intelligent people demonstrate the capacity to learn from observation and experience. Bernie has never done so.
Don’t send them to Jordan. I want them further from Israel, not on a different border. King’s control of Jordan isn’t strong enough to absorb them. Via Egypt lose some within the hordes of Pakistan and Bangladesh. Lose some within the vast empty spaces of Sudan and Mali. 50+ arab states, 40k each would solve it.
You have many "intelligent" people like Bernie who lives in big cities like NYC. They tend to be more "open-minded" so they are quicker to embrace new ideas. Like communism. The problem is that new ideas may be bad.
We may be dumber in the country. But we know that the old ways work quite well.
You see this kind of phenomenon in other countries as well. France, England, Canada. They're all similar. You get out of Toronto, London or Paris. You meet people who live in the countryside. They're not "woke".
Reoccupy and denazify.
Indeed, it is fascinating that big city folk tend, at least, to be leftist to one degree or another.
This is partly understandable from this perspective:
leftism assumes that the use of political force can “improve society” and “perfect human behavior”
indeed, one can argue that this {”substitution of the use of force for the self-respect, self-regulation, self-control, and the faith in the Divine instead of governmental power) that this is at the very core of the communist/nazi error.
At any event,
there is some need for more regulation or limitation on individual behavior if crowded large cities are to survive without the habituants breaking out in utter violence. Any undergraduate sociology student knows this from laboratory rats. You crowd them too tightly in their cages and they start attacking each other.
So, maybe there’s some need for some extra governmental limitations on individual liberties in crowded cities? It is at least a discussion topic.
Having allowed for that possibility, the core problem remains the misguided faith in governmental compulsion instead of self-regulation of behavior, the self-regulation that has traditionally been guided by Judeo=Christian moral teachings in our society.
anyway this is my thought of the evening. your mileage may differ, have at it!
cheer,
It's worth assembling a highly financed think tank of social scientists, psychologists, and intelligence officials to design this new religion, if this is not underway already.
Moslems, members ALL of an EVIL DEATH CULT — ISLAM — HATE ALL non-Moslems!
Shoot, they even hate some Moslems.
The Shia — Sunni conflict is the world’s longest lasting Hatfield - McCoy type feud. They have been killing each other since Mohammed died.
Exactly right. And the German governments that eventually took over from the occupation forces not only continued but, in many cases, even strengthened these policies. I believe that even today the Nazi salute, songs such as the Horst Wessel Lied and other remnants of that sorry era are banned.
Genesis 16:12 kjv
And he will be a wild man;
his hand will be against every man,
and every man's hand against him;
and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren.
Yup. That’s the way it reads.
I think there’s gonna be wars, and even rumors of wars, until Jesus returns.
That is true. A few years ago, iirc, a Canadian tourist was sent to prison for giving a Nazi salute in front of the Reichstag building.
I‘m sorry he had been unaware of this law, and how mercilessly it is being enforced.
Furthermore, the Imperial Diet, to use the English translation, was not used as a parliamentary building after the fire in early 1933.
The members of the Reichstag gathered in the Kroll- Opera house until 45, no more in the Imperial Diet. The Kroll Opera House is not extant, while the old building was left half repaired as an exhibition hall.
Soviet propaganda reenacted the hoisting of the Blood-rag one day after the Red Army had taken Berlin, taking good care to retouch the photo - covering up the fact that the concerned soldier was wearing several watches on his wrist 🤣
Very much appreciate the further clarification by a native German. As I am sure you are aware, the Nazis were far left, not far right. They just hated (some) different people than today’s far left.
Yes, they were. They opposed all individual freedom, just as their hostile brothers, the communists, did😔
However, by mainland European „political standards“, the Nazis are often considered right wing, due to their racial hatred, which they don’t consider egalitarian. Egalitarianism, however, is viewed as the hallmark of a leftist ideology.
In theory,there were differences between the Reds and the Browns. In practice, they were almost alike.
Like all leftists…
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.