Posted on 06/02/2024 4:02:04 AM PDT by Recovering_Democrat
The United Methodist Church in the Ivory Coast voted on May 28 to exit the denomination in response to the church’s decision to approve gay pastors and same-sex marriage at its governing General Conference earlier this month.
In 2022, this conference reportedly had over 1.2 million members. So, its departure means over one tenth of United Methodism has—in one day—left the denomination.
“For reasons of conscience before God and His word, the supreme authority in matters of faith and life,” the annual conference of the United Methodist Church of Ivory Coast (EMUCI, Eglise Méthodiste Unie Côte d’Ivoire), gathered for an extraordinary session on May 28 in Abidjan, and decided “to leave the United Methodist Church denomination.”
The decision follows the early May 3 vote at the United Methodist Church General Conference in the United States to lift the ban on ordaining gay pastors and officiating same-sex marriages.
(Excerpt) Read more at fulcrum7.com ...
I think the largest body of Methodists in Mexico are in the autonomous IMM - Mehodist Church of Mexico, which only has a collegial relationship with the UMC (my understanding). Like other Methodist bodies outside the U.S. their views are closer to the Methodist missionaries that went to Mexico in the 1800s. In predominately Catholic Mexico, the Methodists there are something less than 200,000 in number, whereas 7th Day Adevntists in Mexico number nearly a million, with about 5,000 churches.
After listening to J. Vernan McGee describe the liberal church, I left the Methodist Church 50 years ago. After hearing a PCA pastor deny prophecy after prophecy in scripture, I left the PCA church.
what corner? I have fam in MO.
“After hearing a PCA pastor deny prophecy after prophecy in scripture, I left the PCA church.”
We still listen to J Vernon McGee, even though he’s been gone for decades now. Still pertinent, as it always will be.
Re PCA, we’re very new there, and my ears are perked every minute to find out what might be a problem.
Pastor hasn’t touched on prophecy yet, so we’ll see about that.
The congregation reads “creeds”, which I sort of have a problem with. Apostles Creed seems OK. Nicene has “I acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins.” I definitely won’t speak that. I’m here: Hebrews 9:22 states, “And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission”.
Anyhow, we’ll see how things go. We love their service, which is super traditional, but not stuffy. Their hymns are the same as our old Baptist hymns.
Cape Girardeau
“ Officially, you’re a Christian who happens to be part of the Methodist denomination and currently attends a Baptist Church.”
Unity at the foot of the cross is essential in these dark times. Always embrace a brother or sister in Christ.
Exactly what I was getting at.
The joke goes that the difference between a Baptist and a Methodist is that a Methodist will say “hi” to you in a liquor store.
aimhigh - isn’t that leaving just because of what one pastor in the PCA said? I don’t think the PCA has any particular stance on prophecy in scripture either way.
It is important for a community to have a common statement of belief.
The English word creed comes from the Latin credere, “to believe,” so it is important to have this to have a common baseline of beliefs.
The creeds are not comprehensive, nor meant to be, but they are to ensure that all members have a common baseline. Note that the Nicene creed was the result of centuries of discussions from the Apostles to the 3rd century.
” Note that the Nicene creed was the result of centuries of discussions from the Apostles to the 3rd century.”
I don’t base my faith on “centuries of discussions”. Anyone who does is a cult member.
If a creed says that remission of sin is via baptism, then they don’t believe the Scripture which clearly states that without the shedding of blood there is no remission. Baptism never is tied to remission of sin.
Now I’m going volare.
I would urge you to not read 9:22 in isolation. Especially note 9:18 -- this entire piece of "blood needed" was about the OLD Covenant:
18 This is why even the first covenant was not put into effect without blood.The shedding of the blood of Jesus Christ is hyper-sufficient for the remission of our sins.
19 When Moses had proclaimed every command of the law to all the people, he took the blood of calves, together with water, scarlet wool and branches of hyssop, and sprinkled the scroll and all the people. 20 He said, “This is the blood of the covenant, which God has commanded you to keep.”[e]
21 In the same way, he sprinkled with the blood both the tabernacle and everything used in its ceremonies.
22 In fact, the law requires that nearly everything be cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.
Hebrews 9:14 says
“How much more, then, will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death, so that we may serve the living God!“:You must note Acts 2
38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call.”1 Peter 3
, 21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God.[e] It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22 who has gone into heaven and is at God’s right hand—with angels, authorities and powers in submission to him.Titus 3:5 he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit,
Scripture keeps telling us that it is in baptism that we are saved, buried with Christ, incorporated into his body, washed of our sins, regenerated, cleansed, and so on (see Acts 2:38, 22:16; Rom. 6:1–4; 1 Cor. 6:11, 12:13; Gal. 3:26–27; Eph. 5:25-27; Col. 2:11–12; Titus 3:5; 1 Pet. 3:18–22). the New Testament connects baptism and forgiveness. Baptism, the water symbolizes cleansing, purification. It’s tied to the forgiveness of sins in Acts 2, the washing away of sins Acts 22. Titus 3, baptism is called the washing of regeneration and renewal.
The centuries of discussion are more about the Church clearly defining its beliefs against what Donatists, Marcionists, Gnostics etc. were stating
“The centuries of discussion are more about the Church clearly defining its beliefs”
“The Church”? You mean the Catholic denomination? I guess some people care about that.
Well, firstly, the Church is not a denomination. Denominations are those diverse chiefly Protestant communities of faith that exist precisely because they are in one way or another different from the rest.
The Catholic Church does not exist in order to protest something or differ from something. It is, quite simply, The Church.
Now, due to some unfortunate historical events, the Church is in disunity. The separated parts of the Church are the Eastern Orthodox local churches. But neither we, nor they, call them “denominations”. They are true Churches, we share the same historical root with them our theologies are identical or at least highly compatible (depending on whom you ask), we all grieve that we are not yet united, and one day we will be.
A community of faith is a church not by nominating it so, but through continues historical succession of her bishops from the Holy Apostles. It, further, is in unity will all Catholic or Orthodox Christians who died and went to heaven; they comprise the Communion of Saints. Most importantly, a church is united with Christ mystically through the Holy Eucharist. When a communion is celebrated in a non-Catholic (nor Orthodox) worship, no real presence of Christ occurs in the bread or wine (or grape juice). So sometimes we speak of the Church as a single communion of all saints united through our sacraments; and sometimes we speak of churches such as the Roman Catholic church, or Greek Orthodox church, etc. We also refer to the pre-chalcedonian churches, such as Armenian or Coptic as churches, again because of their historical succession form the Apostles.
Denominations is a Protestant idea and should properly be used in the context of Protestant communions of faith.
When we need to speak of all Christian communions of faith, regardless of the validity of sacraments or degree of apostolic succession, if you don’t like “communion of faith”, you can use its synonym, “confession”. E.g. Baptist confession, Methodist confession, Catholic confession.
Now to the point of the discussions - this was the united Church as a whole - there were none of the breakaway groups at the time of Nicea
I would urge you to not read 9:22 in isolation. Especially note 9:18 -- this entire piece of "blood needed" was about the OLD Covenant:
18 This is why even the first covenant was not put into effect without blood.The shedding of the blood of Jesus Christ is hyper-sufficient for the remission of our sins.
19 When Moses had proclaimed every command of the law to all the people, he took the blood of calves, together with water, scarlet wool and branches of hyssop, and sprinkled the scroll and all the people. 20 He said, “This is the blood of the covenant, which God has commanded you to keep.”[e]
21 In the same way, he sprinkled with the blood both the tabernacle and everything used in its ceremonies.
22 In fact, the law requires that nearly everything be cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.
Hebrews 9:14 says
“How much more, then, will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death, so that we may serve the living God!“:You must note Acts 2
38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call.”1 Peter 3
, 21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God.[e] It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22 who has gone into heaven and is at God’s right hand—with angels, authorities and powers in submission to him.Titus 3:5 he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit,
Scripture keeps telling us that it is in baptism that we are saved, buried with Christ, incorporated into his body, washed of our sins, regenerated, cleansed, and so on (see Acts 2:38, 22:16; Rom. 6:1–4; 1 Cor. 6:11, 12:13; Gal. 3:26–27; Eph. 5:25-27; Col. 2:11–12; Titus 3:5; 1 Pet. 3:18–22). the New Testament connects baptism and forgiveness. Baptism, the water symbolizes cleansing, purification. It’s tied to the forgiveness of sins in Acts 2, the washing away of sins Acts 22. Titus 3, baptism is called the washing of regeneration and renewal.
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