After Fighting Ukraine Aid, Trump Says Biden Will ‘Give’ Ukraine to Putin: Donald Trump suggested he would do more to protect the country from Russia, seeking to flip the script on the president, who has been calling for more military aid for months.

New York Times ^ | Feb. 14, 2024 | Michael Gold

[UMCRevMom@aol.com]

For many months, President Biden has been rallying global leaders to provide more military aid to Ukraine and pressing Congress to pass a multibillion-dollar aid package to help the country beat back Russian aggression. Former President Donald J. Trump has been undermining that effort, pressing Republicans to thwart it.

But on Wednesday, Mr. Trump tried to flip the script, suggesting that he would do more to protect Ukraine than Mr. Biden, who he said would effectively cede Ukraine as a gift to President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia.

Speaking at a campaign event in North Charleston, S.C., Mr. Trump said that, under a Biden presidency, Mr. Putin is “going to be given everything he wants, including Ukraine. That’s a gift. He’s got a gift.”

Then Mr. Trump — who often positively invokes Mr. Putin as an authoritarian strongman, and who acknowledged in his speech that they got along — doubled down, saying that Mr. Biden “is going to give” Ukraine to Mr. Putin.

Mr. Biden has repeatedly vowed to help Ukraine defend itself for “as long as it takes,” pledging that “our commitment to Ukraine will not weaken.” Mr. Trump, by contrast, has previously said that he would consider letting Russia “take over” parts of Ukraine in a negotiated deal to end the war.

A day earlier, the Senate, in a bipartisan vote, approved an additional $60.1 billion in assistance to Kyiv to help it fight Russia’s invasion, part of a long-debated foreign aid package for Ukraine and Israel.

[Darksheare]

You’re arguing something that had existed long before you got onsite in December 2000 and before I got here in October 2000.
Don’t.

[Darksheare]

Don’t send unsolicited freepmail either.

[bimboeruption]

>This is not a lack of comment etiquette.

LACK of using Comment Etiquette would be considered when a Freeper is NOT active on a thread and NOT PINGED: especially when being discussed negatively. This has occurred more than once. Instead, I became aware of these and other negative comments thru freemail sent to me by other Freepers.

EXAMPLE:
Both these abusive personal religious insults were made against me and the practice of my faith on this Post/thread that of which I was not active in discussion.

1. Comment #2 I wonder if the holy mother RevMom is praying for his family’s peace? https://freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/4210008/posts?page=2#2

2. Comment #40 >I wonder if the holy mother RevMom is praying for his family’s peace? Zeeper creepers incoming!< Oh she’s praying alright, but it isn’t to the God of the Bible. https://freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/4210008/posts?page=40#40<

You're so funny mommy.

[UMCRevMom@aol.com]

I love Forbes.. our family met him & his daughter in D.C.

[Red6]

Here’s the difference,

Under Trump, Ukraine today would not be in a state of war and de facto destroyed as a nation.

Under Trump we would have never taken the high risk, low ROI move fastracking Ukraine unconditionally into NATO October 2021.

This was us causing a war: https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukrainian-president-zelenskiy-holding-talks-with-biden-adviser-says-2021-12-09/

And it was an UNNECESSARY move other than it servered the purpose of making sure some really rich people got what they wanted, and that the US has some influence in Europe through security policy (We don’t want to lose our influence and Ukraine joining the EU but not NATO is undesirable).

Trump having been a business man and still of sound mind, understands how to manage risk, the concept of ROI, while with Biden there was some serious miscalculation. This is especially true since Ukraine 2014 and the Republic of Georgia 2008 clearly showed Russia had enough of our jackass games along their border. So was this war predictable? Yes.

Russia is no longer the Soviet threat, nor is there a Warsaw Pact. Russia is by itself less than 1/2 our conventional military and with less high tech, less big high end systems... But they are an over-match (>3 times the power) for Ukraine militarily, economicaly, by population, and in political influence. Was the outcome of this war predictable? Yes.

The BEST we can hope for today is a Ukraine that lost 18% of their land and population to Russia, their major industial area, their steel industry with its port city. Those are gone. As to the rest, the refugees, birthrate implosion, loss of >1/3 of a nations GDP, damage to infrastructure, internal instability, the loss of life, and tens of thousands of invalids which will drain Ukraines resources for a generation are also considerations.

The MSM should be asking Biden, “WTF were you thinking?” Or the MSM should ask “were even thinking?”

[Red6]

BS numbers and of course no Ukrainian casualties.

Ukraine lost.

They lost.

They lost months ago.

You just live in a fantasy world where you create new and in part BS crteria for success to pretend as if they won or at least held their own.

Politically this war was about NATO membership and Ukraine has NOT accomplished this, nor will it.

Militarily Ukraines objective was to prevent the Russians from seizing the ethnic Russian Eastern territories which they were NOT able to do.

The war today is simply about:

1) Inflicting as much damage to Russia as possible (we openly admit this).

2) How to disengage without appearing like we failed. Saving face.

[Worldtraveler once upon a time]

--- "Don’t send unsolicited freepmail either."

So did you comment to the original poster in this most amusing thread. I received an "unsolicited freepmail" which was NOT intended for me, obviously. Intended for some other, she clicked "send" with my moniker in the address bar. it read:

Re: Ukrainian soldier thanks eight-year-old from Wales for buying him a new helmet: "Thankyou, thank

From UMCRevMom@aol.com | 01/22/2024 11:04:38 AM PST replied

Don’t reply to World Traveler Once Upon a Time.

He is evil & delights in entrapping freepers to have them removed from FR

The soft underbelly of FR posting and commenting about the Ukraine-Russia war between two non-NATO nations is obvious. It was deemed "evil" to question certain things.

One thing to be questioned about this particular thread is that the New York Times article was promoted, saying "Former President Donald J. Trump has been undermining that effort...."

One comment which followed was "DON’T LET DEMOCRATS TELL YOU WHAT IS AND HAS BEEN THE REPUBLICAN POSITION." A comment was made by Redmen4ever, which I highlighted with a proper ascription.

Later in this thread, comment #30, "I believe this is a purposeful misrepresentation of what Trump said. No other source is reporting this."

The campaign against Trump allies American Leftists with RINOs, and certainly the NYTimes' political slant is Left. Their message? The purpose of posting this article? And, later in the day, a second posting of the same article by another? Amplifying a Democrat talking point through Free Republic.

A "purposeful misrepresentation" of Trump, indeed.

[tennmountainman]

Have you met Denys Davydov or The Enforcer?

[tlozo]

Ukraine lost...They lost months ago.

Sure Red, "Ukraine lost months ago" when Putin conquered Ukraine's capitol. Okay

[Red6]

You don’t decide what the objectives of this war were.

The were defined and today you are “chaging the goal post” in order to pretend Ukraine did not lose.

(Politically) and the cause of this was was Ukraine entering NATO. That did not haoopen and it will not happen. Therefore, Ukraine did NOT achieve their political goal.

(Militarily) the goal was to prevent Russia from seizing the Eastern and Ethnic Russian areas. It was ALWAYS known that Russia as in 2014 with Crimea will go after areas that long term are easy to hold because contrary to your feelings, the people there actually see themselves more Russian. Ukraine was NOT able to hold these lands and they are today part of Russia. Therfore, Ukraine did not achieve their military objectives.

***When you FAIL to accomplish your stated political and military objectives, you lost.***

What now?

Ukraine’s last shot was their counteroffensive which also failed. There will be no retaking of their once Eastern lands. It’s gone.

Russia has ZERO ambition on taking all of Ukraine, that was never their goal. BUT if Ukraine does not end this, the Russians will continue to eat them up, little by little. That’s called keeping the pressure on. The longer the West continues this war, the longer Ukraine stuggles, the more Ukraine loses.

For us however, it is politically extremely embarassing (for the Biden administration, NATO, our Euro allies), especially going into an election year in the US to fail like this. So we need to figure out a way where we can get out of this with our tail between our legs but not appear to have failed.

The only complete loser in this, is Ukraine. ***We were not their freinds when we pushed NATO.*** They are left with lost land, lost part of their population, lost industrial area, lost port city, a damaged infrastructure, tens of thousands dead, even more crippled, millions of refugees many never to return (brain drain), a GDP that imploded, dedt that exploded, internal instability, a birthrate that is abysmal, no NATO, and EU membership that was in reach before the war is now off the table. That is called an abject failure.

You trying to pretend Ukraine didn’t lose by creating your own and new goal posts is like some kid losing a chess competition but getting a participation award.

Ukraine was cooked a few month ago, when the counter offensive failed. The West will not supply and pay for such an event again.

Now it’s just a question of how many Ukrainians we’re going to send to their graves so that we don’t look like we failed because in reality Ukraine (Mr. Z) is a marionette which does whatever we say. When Trump says he can end this war in 24 hours, that isn’t a joke.

[Darksheare]

I admit, I never read what she sent.

[Red6]

What century do you live in?

MOST wars, their winners and losers, are not defined by who takes a capital post WWII.

Vietnam 1965-1972
Libya 1986
Iran 1988
Iraq 1991
Serbia 1991-97

Even Russia's thrust towards Kiev was no more than a diversion, and what was celebrated by the fools as some great victory for Ukraine, was in reality Ukraine pulling needed forces from the East which was the primary effort / objective for the Russians.

But Ukraine had no choice because a good diversion forces the enemy to react. You put the enemy in a position to where if they do not react, they lose something even more valuable. A good diversion isn't a faint where you trick the enemy into thinking their are forces in some number somewhere where they actually aren't. It's a military operation that makes the enemy react to you and pull those resources away from where your main effort is.

The Ukraine / West knew what the Russians are shooting for, and they had been preparing for years (since 2014 in earnest). Every guy the Russians can get pulled out of the East/South takes the pressure off enormously since this was a well prepared battle-space (plans of defense, rehearsals, weapons cache's, unconventional forces, fortifications, pre identified fighting positions, preplanned obstacle plans...).

If you want to know where an Army plans to stay, just look where they pour concrete. If they lay mats for runways, it's temporary, if they pour concrete, they're staying.

You making up your own definition of success and failure is complete BS. These were defined by the politicians who set this war in motion by expanding NATO Eastward (political objective) and the military commanders (military objectives) who's goal it was to prevent the Russians from seizing the Eastern parts of Ukraine. On both accounts, Ukraine has lost. They are cooked. They have been cooked. It's over, done, finished. Now it's just a matter of time for the political elites, those in power, to come to grips and figure out a dignified exit, but the reality is that now Russia is sitting in Crimea and Eastern Ukraine. Congratulations, great doing!

[Vlad0]

It also ignores the fact that there were two presidential election afterwards.Yes, but seeing the coup-installed regime immediately set about punishing Russian speaking Ukrainians who had supported the legitimate President, and then started shelling the Donbass, and at the same time Russia re-asserted control of Crimea, and annexed it:

The election which Zelenskyy won can't really be compared to the election that took place before the Maiden coup de etat of 2014 when there were millions more Russia-supporting voters.

It's sort of like the elections North Vietnam had in 1960, when the Vietnamese Fatherland Front won 99% of the seats, and the seats reserved for the South went unfilled.

The civil war taking place after 2014 obviated the claim that those elected represent Ukraine (all of it). They represent the "remainder faction".

[Vlad0]

It's good to see you back. I notice (and I'm sure everyone else does) that your daily cadence of posts from Denys the Menys has stopped. If you don't mind sharing: what are your reasons for that? I know you think very highly of him still. It's seems hard to believe that the criticisms of him by other Freepers, after all these months, finally effected you. Did they?

Or did you get a "message from on-high" to knock it off with the Denys the Menys postings? Just curious.

Also, it seems like you (and the other Zeepers) are trying hard to avoid talkinga bout the Elephant in the Room.

Avdiivka has Fallen!

New York Times:
What to Know About the Fall of Avdiivka

Russia’s capture of a city that had been a stronghold of Ukrainian defenses in the Donetsk region is a strategic and symbolic blow.

CNN:
Russia raises its flag in Avdiivka, then presses the advantage on a vulnerable Ukraine

The Russian flag has been raised in several parts of the eastern town of Avdiivka in Donetsk, hours after Ukrainian forces beat a hasty retreat from the ruins of a town they’ve been defending for a decade.

But Ukraine’s army is under pressure at several other points along the frontline that meanders for some 1,000 kilometers from the border with Russia in the north to the Black Sea.

Where's Denys?

[Petrosius]

Yes, but seeing the coup-installed regime immediately set about punishing Russian speaking Ukrainians who had supported the legitimate President, and then started shelling the Donbass, and at the same time Russia re-asserted control of Crimea, and annexed it:

The new president was installed by the democratically elected parliament and elections were held immediately afterwards. The excuse of a "coup" is really wearing thin.

and then started shelling the Donbass

The shelling was between government forces and those backed by the Russians. There was no massive shelling of the civilian population. Stop with the Russian propaganda.

and at the same time Russia re-asserted control of Crimea, and annexed it:

Russia did not "re-assert control," they seized it from the sovereign authority of Ukraine.

The election which Zelenskyy won can't really be compared to the election that took place before the Maiden coup de etat of 2014 when there were millions more Russia-supporting voters.

The only reason that those voters did not participate in the elections is because Russia was occupying the territory and preventing them. If not for that they could, and could still now, participate in Ukrainian elections.

The civil war taking place after 2014 obviated the claim that those elected represent Ukraine (all of it). They represent the "remainder faction".

It was not a civil war but Russian occupation. It is the Russians, not the Ukrainians, who are preventing them from participating in elections.

[linMcHlp]

bttt

[UMCRevMom@aol.com]

“It’s good to see you back.”

So silly! Sorry to disappoint!

I have never left or stopped sharing updates from Denys.

[Widget Jr]

Avdiivka has Fallen!

WOW! What a... non surprise.

The fall of Avdiivka surprises no one, gains Russia nothing, at a cost they don't want to talk about. It took Russia two years to capture 11 square miles that was flanked on three sides.

Russia is attacking where it can concentrate forces to attack, because Russia can't attack in force anywhere else. Which means, Russia has not real military plan and their logistics are still less than they were in WW-II.

Nine months ago, when Backhut was taken, the Russian side cheered saying it was the end of the war. Nine months later Avdiivka falls. The Russian side is cheering saying it is the end of the war.

The reality is Russia has no substantial ability to capitalize and advance further.

[woodpusher]

The reality is Russia has no substantial ability to capitalize and advance further.

The reality is Russia took the invincible fortress of Artymovsk and the Zeepers said Russia had no substantial ability to capitalize and advance further. Then the Russians advanced further and took the invincible fortress of Avdeyevka.

[blitz128]

Well done, two years into the war and you took “fortress avdiivka “. The loss of avdiivka is not a surprise to anyone. Relentless artillery and aviation bombing and endless mear waves and sacrificed equipment will do that.
Germans managed to take fortress sevestapol, with far less losses, was the war over for the Soviets?
Ukraine is at a severe disadvantage facing the “2nd greatest military”, with less manpower and dependent on western aid which has been spotty and less than sufficient, and yet two years in and bakmut and avdiivka are your crowning glories?
So gloat, you and your kind took another countries city(what’s left of it), maybe Moscow can make avdiivka it’s sister city and send its resources and technical people to rebuild it while the pipes continue to burst there and pilots with bad smoking habits……
Putin will continue this war, because he has to. To lose means he loses. No much has been made of Ukrainians dying, fascinating how meat waves of Russians is just meh.
Time will tell