Posted on 02/12/2024 4:46:45 PM PST by MeganC
Feb 12 (Reuters) - A preliminary analysis concluded that Russia hit Kyiv last week with the hypersonic Zircon missile, its first use in the nearly two-year-old war, the head of a Kyiv research institute said on Monday, presenting a new challenge to Ukraine's air defences. Oleksandr Ruvin, director of the Kyiv Scientific-Research Institute for Forensic Examinations, said on his Telegram channel that his institute completed a preliminary analysis of missile fragments from a Russian attack on Feb. 7.
He included a video of alleged missile wreckage showing specific markings. "In this case, we see elements that are characteristic of the 3M22 Zircon missile. Parts and fragments of the engine and steering mechanisms have specific markings," he wrote.
(Excerpt) Read more at reuters.com ...
The collective West and NATO are finally taking Vlad seriously, no one believed him months ago when he stated he has a full toolbox he hasn’t even used yet.
As all of our hypersonic missile designs have failed and not even close to being fielded, the West is at a supreme disadvantage….as we are witnessing…remember all the Western Wunderweapons were to “ save” Ukraine ? …now smoldering heaps on the fields of Ukraine.
Cry more Biden-bot.
He might have been bragging? Not sure …
I wonder what Dinah-Mo-Hum thinks of that weapon?
Good point.
By we he meant USSR.
Mmmmm....Tweezers
Bring Stalin up in regard to Russia is as silly as bringing up Hitler when discussing modern-day Germany.
Defense experts believe that the Zircon is a highly expensive missile. Each one could cost around $210 million.
and they hit an apartment building wi it...
Your hero Putin directly compared his leadership of Russia today, invading Ukraine, to Hitler invading Poland.
In his interview with Tucker.
The main difference is that this time there is no other country or empire wanting to be on the other side of the table in a new Molotov-Rippentrop arrangement.
Germany definitely doesn’t want the job, France doesn’t care enough to get involved, the EU is listening to the Baltics and Poland telling them that no deal with Putin will be honored by Putin, the US and UK will not violate the Budapest Memorandum like Russia already has, and even Turkey sticks to the UN Charter.
But fortunately for Putin we do have the “useful idiots” brigade, mostly in the USA nowhere near the conflict zone, who periodically wheel out the “everyone wins except Ukraine and Moldova if Poland can have this bit, Russia gets all the beachfront property, Hungary gets a crumb and there are no more dancing Zelenskyy GIFs” sell.
Putin leaves it to others like Solovyov, Dugin and Medvedev to complain about not having NATO or the EU saying “sure, let’s party like it’s 1939... Even if you think we’ll invade Russia later so you can keep up your paranoia, and we’re totally convinced you’ll invade another bit of Eastern Europe later, but let’s park that problem for today and whip some coins off Ukrainian corpses.”
The Moscovians like hitting apartment buildings - its the terror thing. They rarely hit military targets.
Again with the nuclear threats. That crap got old a long time ago.
The war is a nightmare for the Russkie Neo-Soviets. All they have left to brag about is their nuclear arsenal.
History shows us that appeasement is not the way. Shows of strength and determination are our best bet to keep the little sickly Leprechaun dictator and his henchmen from dreaming up nuclear strikes. As France reminded them, “We have nuclear weapons too.”
“The war is a nightmare for the Russkie Neo-Soviets. All they have left to brag about is their nuclear arsenal.”
They claim about the same number of nukes as they claimed to have had main battle tanks this time two years ago.
Twelve thousand.
And of their tanks about three thousand or so have been made functional including museum pieces like the T-55.
The rest of those tanks are beyond salvage due to poor maintenance.
And maintenance on nuclear weapons is far more costly and far more involved.
There is no way Russia has the number of functional nukes it claims to have. They just don’t take care of their weapons systems and the war has proven this to be an absolute fact.
Apparently the Uke Nazis did Nazi it coming!
These territories
Pre Soviet union
Were originally Russian
To begin with
Europe continues
To be the aggressor
In all these war
We had to fight England
For our independence
Same with Germany - France
Attacking Russia
Ukraine is a dnc client state
Just to expand their mobocracy
Israel is a target also
To spread their neo gay Islam
Coextinction - diversity
Marxist - atheism
Around the world
Gog dnc 666 usa
Magog dnc 666 nato
Rev 13
No, I would not expect the Ukrainians to think Ruzzia would spend over $200 million dollars to hit an apartment building. I guess the lesson here is not to underestimate the Ruzzian capacity for mindless stupidity and senseless destruction.
Clearly, Ruzzians aren’t people.
My view …it’s a message. The Zircon is nuclear capable, and the message is that Russia has the ability to launch a tactical nuclear attack on Kyiv that the Ukrainians would not be able to stop.
Consequently, it wouldn’t matter if it hit an apartment building or hit the town square - the result would be the same.
There is a lot of ‘conversation’ going on between Russia, Ukraine, and NATO. This was just another message between the three (more like, between Russia and NATO).
I hoped that this war would be a quick one - and that Ukraine’s early successes would result in Russia opting to quickly save face and return to the borders as at 24 February 2022). That is now out of question, with too much lost for both Ukraine and Russia for a sensible outcome to be agreed upon. If Ukraine gave up, it would be over for Zelenskyy. If Russia gave up, the same for Putin.
And if the West gets directly involved (as in, directly not just sending weapons), then things get tough for everyone. Why? Because Russia has no chance against NATO in a conventional war, and in such an outcome, Russia’s nuclear doctrine allows for the use of thermonuclear weapons.
Now, there are some who say (1) that Russia’s nukes ‘don’t work’ and/or (2) Russia would never use its nuclear weapons, assuming they work, because they would be destroyed themselves.
The thing though is this - there is no Western leader, not even Biden, who would take such a gamble and put their own citizens on the line in such a bet (and, similarly, no Western leader would ever risk sacrificing their own citizens for the sake of Ukrainians). Not even Biden would sacrifice America’s national interests for the sake of Ukrainian lives, even though the current happenings at the border do create some concerns. Otherwise the border issue, not even Biden would risk a thermonuclear conflagration for the benefit of Ukraine. Definitely not the other Western presidents/prime ministers would do this.
This explains why, for example, when a Russian missile flew over Polish airspace, all that happened was a stern warning from Poland and an increase in Polish AF F-16C flights. Both Russia and NATO leadership do not want a direct engagement between themselves because (a) Russia would lose and (b) Russia would go nuclear. It really is that simple,
And that, in my opinion, is why they fired an ‘unstoppable’ weapon at ‘an apartment.’ (Again, I am assuming that the statement it only hit an apartment is true and not propaganda - all sides have been pumping a lot of tripe). It is to send a message - that there is a point where Russia could simply use a tactical strike, which would be a major escalation.
Which takes me back to my initial hope that it would have been a quick war with Ukraine bloodying the nose of Russia and making them go back to their 24 February 2022 position (ie, with Russia in Crimea but outside the rest of Ukraine). That will not be the case!
Options going forward, in my view:
1. Continued stalemate that results in a long-war where both countries keep paying the butcher’s bill in a drawn out fashion. Ukraine would be waiting for a counter offensive next year (2025, assuming Biden wins reelection and the Dems win both houses of Congress and can thus authorize military aid with limited resistance), and Russia would be waiting to see if Western assistance dries up and they can move in with minimal resistance (due to lack of Ukrainian weapons and, especially, soldiers).
2. Continued stalemate that results in some sort of armistice similar to what happened with the two Koreas, resulting in a permanently frozen war. This is actually the most likely option, and it would come with some sort of carrots for Ukraine (eg, joining the EU) but not everything they want (not being part of NATO, but maybe with some sort of bi/tri-lateral security guarantees), and Russia keeping the territories on the other side of the line (and thus giving Putin his ‘win’). By far the most likely situation and the one I would bet money on. I doubt that even the most rabid pro-Ukrainian supporters still believe Ukraine can achieve a total win; and even the most fervent Putin-fanatic stopped believing Russia could take Kyiv in under a week TWO years ago. The outcome will be some sort of armistice with Ukraine joining the EU but not NATO.
3. Ukraine achieves an outright win, and pushes Russia back to either (a) the 24 Feb 2022 borders or even, as some commentators were claiming last year, to (b) the 20 February 2014 borders (prior to Russia moving into Crimea). This, in my view, is impossible! Russia will never let Crimea go for example. They will nuke Kyiv before that happens using tactical weapons.
4. Russia wins and conquers all of Ukraine. Not sure if this was their plan at all, but if it is/was, it is also an impossible task. Russia simply does not have the ability to hold such ground (let alone capture it in the first place), and even if a dark miracle happened and they captured it (impossible), it would result in an insurgency nightmare that would make Fallujah seem like Sunday brunch).
5. NATO gets involved directly. I would hope this is impossible, as it opens up certain permutations that can go wrong quick. I doubt any Western leader would face their nation and tell them they are going to war on behalf of Ukraine, but there are still certain situations that can result in that. For example, scenario A: Ukraine is losing and some commander decides to bomb the nuclear power plant and blame Russia, with radiation flowing into neighboring countries. Or, scenario B: Russia is losing and they attack Ukrainian F-16s based in a NATO country. Not likely, and under normal conditions ‘impossible,’ but unfortunately there are certain scenarios where a desperate Ukraine or Russia can trigger the involvement of NATO.
You’ve made an excellent argument Putin is insane.
I do not believe other Russians would choose to have their country destroyed by nuclear devastation by using nukes first because they are losing.
Destroy your country because you can’t take over another country?
All nuclear nations have ‘zircon-like’ hypersonic missiles: ICBMs on a flat, low altitude trajectory. Range is greatly reduced but similar capability. The attack profile has been available since the ‘60s. The Zircon just has longer low-altitude range and greater maneuverability.
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