Posted on 12/29/2023 7:52:34 AM PST by SeekAndFind
The Nikki Haley slavery tempest in a teapot continues to roil some circles.
For those who have a life and have been spending it with family and friends this Christmas, some background: The candidate for the Republican presidential nomination is in political hot water for her answer to a questioner at a New Hampshire campaign event in which she failed to list “slavery” among the causes of the American Civil War.
She’s subsequently admitted slavery was among those causes, while adding that she thought the question was posed by a Democrat plant in the audience.
The New York Times continues to stoke the story, claiming her answer could “dent her crossover appeal to independents and moderate Democrats.”
Three thoughts:
First, NEWS FLASH: For many of us challenged by the cost of living, the rise in crime, the influx of illegal aliens, and the woke agenda being pushed on cultural-social issues, the enumeration and hierarchy of causes for why something happened 163 years ago is something we do not care about. I’ll even venture to say that unless those “independents” caucus with the Democrats in legislative bodies, they also probably are not burning with concern about the ranked causes of the Civil War.
Second, the Democrat reaction to “of course it was about slavery” is rather rich. Given the historical illiteracy that dominates our schools (we have no time to teach history after spending time on gender, sex, and critical race theory lessons), let’s recall a few facts.
It was South Carolina Democrats, not a South Carolina Republican, who initiated the treason of secession.
It was mostly Democrats who, in the last days of the Democrat Buchanan administration, tried to amend the U.S. Constitution to preserve the Missouri Compromise and, thus, preserve slavery.
(Excerpt) Read more at americanthinker.com ...
Tell that to General Lee and General Grant.
The 3/5 compromise came from a 1783 taxation amendment during the Articles of Confederation era. The amendment didn’t pass but the issue carried over into the Constitutional Convention.
The issue of which side wanted slaves counted as full persons is counterintuitive to what people today imagine it was.
Counting slaves as full persons in 1783 would have lowered the tax obligation of slave states.
Counting slaves as full persons in 1789 would have increased the number of Congressional representatives from slave states.
In both cases slave states wanted slaves counted as persons and non-slave states didn’t want slaves counted at all. The 3/5 compromise was the result.
“Good points...IMO, No way the North was gonna walk away from Sumter...”
They were just looking for an excuse by the time of Ft Sumter and South Carolina provided it.
The prospect of a civil war sought by the North was obvious enough by 1859 for President Buchanan to include it in his State of Union address.
“Whilst it is the duty of the President ‘from time to time to give to Congress information of the state of the Union’, I shall not refer in detail to the recent sad and bloody occurrences at Harpers Ferry. Still, it is proper to observe that these events, however bad and cruel in themselves, derive their chief importance from the apprehension that they are but symptoms of an incurable disease in the public mind, which may break out in still more dangerous outrages and terminate at last in an open war by the North to abolish slavery in the South.
“Whilst for myself I entertain no such apprehension, they ought to afford a solemn warning to us all to beware of the approach of danger. Our Union is a stake of such inestimable value as to demand our constant and watchful vigilance for its preservation. In this view, let me implore my countrymen, North and South, to cultivate the ancient feelings of mutual forbearance and good will toward each other and strive to allay the demon spirit of sectional hatred and strife now alive in the land.
“This advice proceeds from the heart of an old public functionary whose service commenced in the last generation, among the wise and conservative statesmen of that day, now nearly all passed away, and whose first and dearest earthly wish is to leave his country tranquil, prosperous, united, and powerful.
https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/documents/third-annual-message-congress-the-state-the-union
Thanks for the Buchanan information. I think both sides were looking for reasons to start shooting; Sumter was as good as any other reasons for both sides to start swinging
It is frequently stated that “the Constitution never uses the word slavery” as if the Constitution does not mention slavery; or does not protect slavery.
It is there. In his first inaugural address Lincoln said:
“There is much controversy about the delivering up of fugitives from service or labor. The clause I now read is as plainly written in the Constitution as any other of its provisions:
No person held to service or labor in one State, under the laws thereof, escaping into another, shall in consequence of any law or regulation therein be discharged from such service or labor, but shall be delivered up on claim of the
party to whom such service or labor may be due.”
It is scarcely questioned that this provision was intended by those who made it for the reclaiming of what we call fugitive slaves; and the intention of the lawgiver is the law. All members of Congress swear their support to the whole Constitution—to this provision as much as to any other…”
Yes, Lincoln found slavery in the U.S. Constitution.
I denounce slavery in the strongest possible terms.
I’d be yelling “Democrat Plantation” at EVERY opportunity. The sanctity of the black vote traded for worthless lies and promises for over a hundred years. Every time that is brought up, this answer.
I agree. That which is freely joined should also be freely allowed to dis-join.
RE: Lincoln was a racist, more so than the average KKKer of today.
Can you show us the similarities and differences between the beliefs of Lincoln and the average KKKer of today when it comes to blacks?
I'm certain Trump will not choose to run with her as a VP candidate.
I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races [applause]—that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will for ever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race. I say upon this occasion I do not perceive that because the white man is to have the superior position the negro should be denied every thing. I do not understand that because I do not want a negro woman for a slave I must necessarily want her for a wife. My understanding is that I can just let her alone. I am now in my fiftieth year, and I certainly never have had a black woman for either a slave or a wife.[61
RE: I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will for ever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality.
Like many of his time, Lincoln harbored some racist biases, evidenced by his early support for colonization efforts aimed at relocating Black Americans to Africa.
However, his views gradually shifted as he engaged with abolitionists and witnessed the injustices faced by Black people.
A person’s views DO NOT ALWAYS REMAIN STATIC. One’s mind can be changed by reason and debate.
Lincoln firmly condemned slavery, calling it “morally wrong” and a violation of fundamental human rights. He believed in gradual emancipation through compensated abolition.
While not advocating for immediate social equality, Lincoln envisioned a future where Black people could enjoy the same freedoms and opportunities as white Americans. He supported education and economic opportunities for Black communities.
So, Lincoln’s approach to racial equality was incremental, prioritizing the end of slavery over immediate social integration. This cautious stance drew criticism from both abolitionists and some Black leaders who desired swifter change. You can’t please everyone ( try standing in his shoes as President in the 1860s ).
Lincoln’s legacy on race remains complex. While he is rightly celebrated for ending slavery and laying the groundwork for future civil rights advancements, his early racist views and gradualist approach cannot be ignored.
But you only asnwered HALF of my previous question. What does the average KKKer today believe that is different from what Lincoln said in 1859? And what does the average KKKer today think of Lincoln’s Emancipation proclamation?
Abraham Lincoln
What was the date of this speech of Lincoln?
It’s important to acknowledge that Lincoln’s views on racial equality were limited by the context of his time. He advocated for gradual change and did not explicitly support immediate social integration or full political equality for Black Americans. However, his evolving perspectives, culminating in the Emancipation Proclamation and his vision for a more just future, laid the groundwork for future civil rights advancements.
But back to my original question, since you mentioned the average KKKer today. What does the average KKKer today believe that is different from what Lincoln said in 1859? And what does the average KKKer today think of Lincoln’s Emancipation proclamation?
--A. Lincoln.
Which part of this would a KKKer disagree with?
1. WHEN did Lincoln say or write the quote? The WHEN question is important because a person’s views can EVOLVE with time.
2. I asked the question because you said in Post #118 that Lincoln’s racism was MORE SO ( your words ) than the average KKKer today. This to me, implies that the average KKKer today probably does not hold the views that Lincoln held earlier in his life. Since I don’t know or associate qwith any KKKer today, I am asking you.
C’mon Captain, it’s “secession”, not “succession”, and you weren’t the only one.
Why don’t you do your own research? I charge 150.00/hr. Can you pay for that?
RE: Why don’t you do your own research? I charge 150.00/hr. Can you pay for that?
The questions I asked reflect some of my research. I was hoping you could change my mind, but apparently the nuances and complexities of his times are not captured in your statements.
Here is my view — Although these quotes you presented reflected a racist view, it’s important to consider it within the context of Lincoln’s evolving views on race. Despite holding some prejudiced beliefs early in his life, he later demonstrated significant changes in his stance, ultimately supporting emancipation and expressing aspirations for racial equality.
As for today’s KKKer, you were the one who mentioned them, not me. I don’t know much about what this group believes in today compared to the early KKKers.
Most of the statements that I posted were from Lincoln he made in his late 40's and early 50's. DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH
RE: Most of the statements that I posted were from Lincoln he made in his late 40’s and early 50’s. DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH
PRECISELY. As I said. Although this quote reflects a racist view, it’s important to consider it within the context of Lincoln’s EVOLVING views on race. Despite holding some prejudiced beliefs early in his life, he later demonstrated significant changes in his stance, ultimately supporting emancipation and expressing aspirations for racial equality.
We must acknowledge his past racist statement without diminishing his significant role in dismantling slavery and laying the groundwork for future civil rights advancements.
Recognizing that Lincoln’s views on race evolved over time, with later pronouncements indicating a rejection of earlier racist beliefs, adds nuance to the picture.
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