Posted on 10/26/2023 9:13:11 AM PDT by Roman_War_Criminal
Why does the Israel issue get 90+% agreement while both parties agree on nothing else? Just asking.
Massie announced on X ahead of the vote that he would oppose the measure despite condemning “the barbaric attack on Israel” and affirming “Israel’s right to defend itself” in part because it urges the full enforcement of U.S. sanction against Iran to prevent the country’s funding of terrorist groups, including Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad.
I provided links to Massie’s stated reasons and to HR 771 and haven’t hidden anything. Whether or not one or more of Massies’ reasons are valid are being commented on by others.
You were too cowardly to answer and say it was Iran.
Why?
A grasp of why this is important requires a background of understanding, but the thumbnail lies in Genesis 12
Now the Lord said to Abram,
“Go out from your country, your relatives, and your father’s household to the land that I will show you. Then I will make you into a great nation, and I will bless you, and I will make your name great, so that you will exemplify divine blessing. I will bless those who bless you, but the one who treats you lightly I must curse, so that all the families of the earth may receive blessing through you.”
— Genesis 12:1-3
This message builds the broader relevant context:
https://youtu.be/dNs2tt7auQ4?si=BL2zg04yhk40OuVx
What a burdensome stone Jerusalem has become!
Indeed, Brother; indeed.
And it is going to become an even greater one.
The only part that remains to be seen is how soon.
If we see direct Russo-Iranian involvement gin up, here, and the formation of a coalition that draws North Africa into the mix...
Yeah — “tick-tock.”
So, this COULD be another among the many “birth pangs,” but it could very easily blow up into Ez. 38.
If you want to DO something POWERFUL and EFFECTIVE RIGHT NOW:
PRAY-READ Psalm 18 on behalf of Israel, and the children of Jacob.
Wow! Your statement contains an unsubstantiated ad hominem and also begs the question. That's no good.
It’s hard to win a war of ideology with bullets. Not impossible, the Germans and the Japanese eventually changed their minds. But hard, as we see in Afghanistan now. They have to be defeated militarily and pressured and isolated to the point that they realize pursuing their present course is worse. In Afghanistan, the Taliban just won’t give up and the people too fearful even after 20 years of support and training.
One thing I cannot figure out is the post war phase. Who is going to run these territories? Who is going to finance their reconstruction? It cannot go back to business as usual with US/EU/UN just handing them cash. Any foreign aid has to come with very serious strings and consequences; which is tough because politics by very nature is corrupt. And beyond that, some responsible party with the willingness and legal authority to use force to ensure law and order and coexistence has to step up. There are no attacks from Egypt or Jordan because these countries have militaries that won’t allow it. Hezbullah can attack from Lebanon because Lebanon is a weak government and weak military unwilling to control their own country. For the Palestinians, I have no idea who that could be. Egypt likely won’t rule Gaza even temporarily, nor Jordan the West Bank, and the UN has already failed many times in Gaza and Lebanon. Israel never should have let Arafat and the PLO in. Big failure. Clinton should not have forced that on Israel, they should have elevated actual Palestinians living in those lands and supported them with carrots and sticks.
Anyway, going forward, there isn’t anybody who can really speak for or represent the Palestinian people. Some unserious people in the West, Biden included, saying “this has to end with a 2 state solution” are not being honest. The Palestinians are not one people of one mind, and other than Hamas there is no serious leadership among them. You could argue that at this point the Palestinians are 3 distinct people - Gazans, West Bankers, and those who live in “camps” in places like Lebanon. These three factions may be irreconcilable particularly because there is no room for the descendants of refugees in Gaza, and the people of the West Bank don’t want either of them moving in to their neighborhoods.
Hamas has to be destroyed but I have no clue who will step up after they are gone or how these three distinct groups will come together. It simply benefits them to keep blaming Israel because they cannot reconcile these tough questions for themselves. It is probably the single biggest reason why Arafat could never sign on the dotted line - he couldn’t tell the descendants of refugees in Lebanon they were not welcome and he could not tell the people of the West Bank to be prepared for 500,000 Gazans to move in, either. It’s not going to be easy at all but it is very sophomoric to just say “two state solution” when really it’s looking more like a four or five state solution is required. The Palestinians are only united in their hatred of Israel.
See my post #69 above. You’re right about what it will take... but I’m skeptical that it’s even possible. It’s less of a question of whether they want peace with Israel and more to do with answering the hard questions about their own identities. You basically have 3 classes of people. The West Bankers are the more middle class, industrial, and agrarian people. The Gazans and those in other camps are under-educated and require external assistance. The political class in the West Bank simply does not want to see 2 million people with few skills and limited education moving in - yet the West Bank is the only place with land enough to accommodate them.
I think Jared Kushner’s plan tried to address this question. Details are sketchy but I think it included proposals to lease and develop land in the Sinai and Jordan to make room and finance industry, seaport, airport etc... but it went nowhere.
Amen to all of what you posted!
These are dark days, but we know how they end.
God Bless You!
The beginning of wisdom is calling things by their right name.
These wars have zero to do with ideology.
They are race wars, something which humanity has prodigious experience with.
When one side fights and the other pontificates about ideology, it's very hard for the pontificators to prevail.
We own the West because of Wounded Knee and smallpox blankets, not because of "freedom".
Indeed. If you want peace, prepare for war.
and/or
Hope for the best while preparing for the worst.
What is with Thomas Massie?
This is just a resolution - nothing more. It doesn’t authorize any new spending.
We need to increase production to deal with China.
The US keeps preventing Israel from winning completely. We did this in 1967 and 1973. And the US undercut Israel and effectively destroyed the British and French Empires in 1956
I can agree with his stance and respect him for going against the flow and clearly and concisely stating his opposition.
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