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To: BroJoeK
Thanks, but I don't think I need lessons in what's wrong with the USA these days.

Apparently you do since you once stated that the debt may be a problem. There is no may about it, and you are only increasing that problem by supporting the creation of more debt to fund, not only the war, but the day-to-day finances of Ukraine. A foreign nation that is no better, in reality, than the nation they are fighting.

So, why do you insist on saddling the families of America with more debt? Especially our children who are already having a hard time making a life for themselves as it is. They will be the first generation that will not see a better life than their parents. This is the result of our our current & past acts of adventurism have created for the children of this nation. What a great disservice we have done, and I for one feel horrible that our continued mis adventurism, at their expense, has done to them.

The result will be America's standing in the world suffers serious additional damage, and there's no way to predict how long it will take good leadership to repair.

That is happening because we are embroiled in this conflict. Continuing down this path, only increases our debt, as well as, weakening ourselves even more so. Furthermore, it increases that time needed to repair the damage, that grows with each passing day of our involvement.

If Republicans start rejecting continued involvement, then the Democrats are faced with either joining, or continuing on their own. If they choose the latter, then they become the owners of the results.

In the meantime, our refusal to seek a peaceful settlement before Putin launched the invasion, has opened the door for China to make inroads by being the one to broker a peaceful resolution, that we had refused to do from the start.

You facilitated this opening with your insistence to not seek out a resolution prior to invasion, and then after invasion taking the stance that entirely blames Putin, when there were indeed extenuating circumstances you chose to ignore. You also chose to ignore that Putin went in very soft in the beginning. Which may have been a last ditch attempt to give the U.S., one final chance to intervene to provide a resolution to the conflict. Instead, you took this as a sign of Russia's weakness, thus stoking the notion that we were winning this conflict and that we need to make the most f this opportunity. Problem is, that none of the NATO aligned nations really wanted to fight this proxy war, except for the U.S. & this administration in particular.

You failed to recognize it as the cluster-**** that it was then & eventually would become even more so, the more it was escalated & expanded in size & scope.

The failed to take the ineptness of this administration into consideration, even after seeing the debacle that was carried out in Afghanistan. None of this ever even played a part in your thinking to give pause. You just blindly rushed in supporting this conflict with the sole justification of; Putin invaded Ukraine. Your support for our involvement, only furthers the erosion of our nation's strength & abilities. The attitude you adopted was, consequences be damned regarding our involvement in yet another protracted war, because you failed to think what our involvement would result in if we lost yet another conflict. A conflict that was doomed to fail on so many levels, which you refused to take into consideration, because bravado consumed you clouding your thinking.

We are now facing what we should do next.

Do we offer up a peace plan ourselves?

Do we make the decision to get more involved by sending our men, women, along with the transgenders, into the conflict to salvage our reputation around the world?

How many are you willing to sacrifice?

Are you willing to take it to the nuclear stage if need be?

When will you wake up & realize that this is evil at work?

When will you stop supporting the evil that is destroying our good name, along with our nation?

None of you cheerleaders ever took any of this into consideration at all. As I have said before, emotions tend to exacerbate problems, not resolve them. Using your brains might have avoided all of this. Sadly, that was not done.

201 posted on 03/28/2023 3:37:31 PM PDT by Robert DeLong
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To: Robert DeLong
Robert DeLong: "Apparently you do since you once stated that the debt may be a problem.
There is no may about it, and you are only increasing that problem by supporting the creation of more debt to fund, not only the war, but the day-to-day finances of Ukraine.
A foreign nation that is no better, in reality, than the nation they are fighting."

Our national debt today is as relatively high, compared to GDP, as it was at the end of the Second World War, in 1945.
Many nations have suffered much higher debts and eventually paid them down, as we did after 1945.
Today our debt to GDP ratio is 13th in the world, less than Japan, Italy and Greece, roughly equal to Portugal and Singapore, slightly higher than France.

I've said before -- and you continue to ignore the fact -- that $trillions in Federal spending are nothing more than Democrat vote-buying schemes.
As these are reduced or eliminated the Federal budget will come into balance with plenty of money for essentials like national defense.

As for who is right and who is wrong in Ukraine, there is no moral equivalency, no gray area, no confusion possible.
Vlad the Invader invaded Ukraine!!
That's the only fact that matters, everything else is just nonsense and Russian propaganda.
Vlad has to be defeated because if he's not, the consequences will be horrendous for the world as a whole.
That's why 54 nations -- 30 NATO countries plus 24 others have sent military aid to Ukraine.

Robert DeLong: "So, why do you insist on saddling the families of America with more debt?
Especially our children who are already having a hard time making a life for themselves as it is.
They will be the first generation that will not see a better life than their parents.
This is the result of our our current & past acts of adventurism have created for the children of this nation.
What a great disservice we have done, and I for one feel horrible that our continued mis adventurism, at their expense, has done to them."

Sorry, but all that is just blithering nonsense, mindless babbling of meaningless words, utterly untrue in any real sense.
The fact is that everyone's life today can be infinitely better than it was 50 or 100 years ago, in terms of material well-being and good health, if, if, if they will work as hard and dedicated as their parents and great grandparents did back then.
The problem is far too many will not, but instead take an extended childhood, well into their 20s & beyond, living la vida loca, spending their money and ruining their health.
This is not necessarily the government's fault, or responsibility to fix.

The fact is that young people who get good educations, work hard, get married before having children and remain true to their families, they can live a wonderful life beyond the wildest dreams of previous generations.

Robert DeLong: "That is happening because we are embroiled in this conflict.
Continuing down this path, only increases our debt, as well as, weakening ourselves even more so.
Furthermore, it increases that time needed to repair the damage, that grows with each passing day of our involvement."

Again, that's total nonsense.
What increases the debt is wasteful social spending -- "Covid Relief", "Green New Deal", "College Loan forgiveness" -- there are $trillions in wasted dollars.
National defense is a bare necessity, skimped on only at great pearl for the future.

Robert DeLong: "If Republicans start rejecting continued involvement, then the Democrats are faced with either joining, or continuing on their own.
If they choose the latter, then they become the owners of the results."

By their very natures, Democrats are fickle & feckless as leaves in the political winds.
Their strong support for Ukraine today will end on the day they can figure out how to blame Republicans for failure.
They don't care what happens, so long as it's Republicans' fault, and you have a very similar mind-set.
That makes me wonder how truly conservative and/or Republican you are.

Robert DeLong: "In the meantime, our refusal to seek a peaceful settlement before Putin launched the invasion, has opened the door for China to make inroads by being the one to broker a peaceful resolution, that we had refused to do from the start."

Somehow you totally forget that Vlad the Invader has invaded Ukraine twice, both times when Democrats were in charge in Washington, DC, both times because Vlad perceived American and western weakness in our leadership and took advantage.

China will not "broker" anything in Ukraine.
What the Xi-snake will do instead is turn Vlad's Russia into another client, like Little Kim in North Korea.
Russia will become China's raw materials pantry, and Vlad will do what the Xi-snake wants him to.

All of this was Vlad's choice, beginning back in the early 2000s, when he took Russia off its path to NATO membership and decided to make NATO his enemy, China his bosom-buddies ally.
It was Vlad's choice, nothing we did could stop or reverse that.

Robert DeLong: "You facilitated this opening with your insistence to not seek out a resolution prior to invasion, and then after invasion taking the stance that entirely blames Putin, when there were indeed extenuating circumstances you chose to ignore. "

Naw, there were no "extenuating circumstances" -- none, zero, zilch, nada extenuating.
It was naked, raw, pure military aggression exactly equivalent to Hitler's invasions of Austria, Czechoslovakia and Poland in the late 1930s.
Vlad's reasons and language -- those "extenuating circumstances" -- are even the same as Hitler's.

Robert DeLong: "You also chose to ignore that Putin went in very soft in the beginning.
Which may have been a last ditch attempt to give the U.S., one final chance to intervene to provide a resolution to the conflict.
Instead, you took this as a sign of Russia's weakness, thus stoking the notion that we were winning this conflict and that we need to make the most f this opportunity.
Problem is, that none of the NATO aligned nations really wanted to fight this proxy war, except for the U.S. & this administration in particular."

And the Russian propaganda B.S. just never stops with you does it, FRiend?
Your claim that Putin "went in soft" is pure nonsense.
Vlad's 2022 invasion force was nearly 200,000 out of Russia's 1.5 million available forces and he has since mobilized another half million.
So there was nothing "soft" about Vlad's numbers and certainly not about the destruction in Ukraine, now put at circa $400 billion in property and up to 30,000 civilian lives.

The fact that Vlad's invasion was less than 100% successful is a miracle from God, nothing less, but despite serious set-backs, Vlad still controls about 50% more of Ukraine today than he did in January 2022.

The Ukraine war has amply demonstrated certain weakness in the Russian military -- today they are more like the Soviet armies which tried to invade Finland in 1939, than like the victorious armies which defeated Nazi Germany in 1945.
But it's anybody's guess which way they go from here.

As for NATO, 30 NATO countries plus 24 others have sent aid to Ukraine.
In total, combined, aid from the EU is roughly equal to American aid, so we are not in this alone, by a long shot.

Robert DeLong: "You failed to recognize it as the cluster-**** that it was then & eventually would become even more so, the more it was escalated & expanded in size & scope."

And still your babbling nonsense blathers on and on.
War is always a cluster-****, where people are getting killed & maimed, vast property destruction, best laid plans that go awry, as soon as the enemy responds.
In Ukraine, in particular, all of the evidence we have says Ukrainians have used our aid effectively and revealed the Russians to be less than the 10 foot tall giants they were said to be.

Robert DeLong: "You just blindly rushed in supporting this conflict with the sole justification of; Putin invaded Ukraine. "

There's nothing "blind" about it, but that's exactly right, Putin invaded Ukraine, and nothing else matters from our perspective.
Vlad has to be defeated, period, end of discussion.

Robert DeLong: "Your support for our involvement, only furthers the erosion of our nation's strength & abilities.
The attitude you adopted was, consequences be damned regarding our involvement in yet another protracted war, because you failed to think what our involvement would result in if we lost yet another conflict.
A conflict that was doomed to fail on so many levels, which you refused to take into consideration, because bravado consumed you clouding your thinking."

And your nonsense just keeps coming...
First of all, muscles are not weakened by being exercised.
Vlad the Invader is now exercising his forces in the biggest challenge they've faced since 1945 and they will grow stronger as a result.
But they may never grow stronger than determined Ukraine & western resistance.

As for whether we lose this conflict that is your choice, and you seem eager to embrace it.
I don't think it's in the least inevitable.
Indeed, Ukrainian victory is inevitable, if we stay strong with them, imho.

Robert DeLong: "We are now facing what we should do next.
Do we offer up a peace plan ourselves?
Do we make the decision to get more involved by sending our men, women, along with the transgenders, into the conflict to salvage our reputation around the world?
How many are you willing to sacrifice?
Are you willing to take it to the nuclear stage if need be?
When will you wake up & realize that this is evil at work?
When will you stop supporting the evil that is destroying our good name, along with our nation?"

That is all 100% total rubbish and nonsense, questions you should fly to Moscow -- assuming you're not already there -- and ask Vlad the Invader himself.
Those are questions for him, not for us.
Our job is simply to oppose, with whatever we can, his insanity.

Our Democrat administration is not going to send US forces into Ukraine, but it has and will continue to beef up our defenses in nearby NATO countries like Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Slovakia, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria and Turkey.
And then there are Finland and Sweden now on our side too.
Vlad the Invader has united Europe and the west like no other no other leader, ever, not even old "Uncle Joe" Stalin could do that.


206 posted on 03/29/2023 4:40:37 PM PDT by BroJoeK
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