Posted on 05/11/2022 12:28:06 PM PDT by Kaslin
Singapore is larger than Hong Kong
Singapore can survive on it’s own water and food sources for a while. Hing kong can not.
Singapore is an entrepot, hong Kong isn’t.
I was referring to the lease of 1898.
“I was referring to the lease of 1898.”
Obviously, since it is the only one.
I will repeat.
And read the Joint Declaration. It is not based on the New Territories lease expiring.
“the lease was unfortunately fully legal for China to end”
Groundless assertion. I say ludicrous.
And the proof is ChiComs did not end the lease, the exchange was not based on CCP ending the lease.
How could they?
“Singapore is larger than Hong Kong”
Wrong again.
Hong Kong 1100 square km
Singapore 725 square km
“Singapore can survive on it’s own water and food sources for a while. Hing kong can not.”
Singapore imports water and energy.
Interesting and accurate points. Thank you.
I’m going to go back and read more — you’ve proven my above statements as wrong. Thank you
But they didn't actually fight in military sense as is happening in Ukraine. Don't get me wrong - Hong Kong had no real chance militarily against China and it would have been a futile gesture. I'm not blaming them for not committing suicide.
I'm just pointing out that armed resistance presents a much easier, more clear opportunity for the rest of the world to support the cause. Ukraine is fighting militarily, we can all see or at least imagine the direct horrors of that war, and can help tangiblyby sending armaments and war material. Perhaps most importantly, supporters see there is a real chance to actually win.
There is really no equally tangible way we could have supported Hong Kong, and the takeover was inevitable. Realistically, Hong Kong's situation was hopeless.
“But they didn’t actually fight in military sense as is happening in Ukraine.”
Are we supposed to take you seriously?
I was answering the question posed by the thread title: "Why doesn't the tragic subjugation of Hong Kong get the same attention as Ukraine?"
And I stick by my answer - because Ukraine is an ongoing war, and Hong Kong isn't. There was no war, no dramatic pictures of Chinese tanks blowing up, etc.. It's done, over, finished. That's not going to change, and that's why it no longer gets attention. Nobody talks about Macao anymore either, do they?
Ukraine is the first major European war in 80 years, and you wonder why it is getting so much attention??
Are you serious?
Are you under the impression Hong Kong had a military?
No, but at least your question confirms that you never actually read my initial post, which said:
"Don't get me wrong - Hong Kong had no real chance militarily against China and it would have been a futile gesture. I'm not blaming them for not committing suicide.
My answer to the question posed by the thread title remains the same - There was no attention-grabbing shooting war between Hong Kong and China as there is between Russia and Ukraine, so it gets less attention from the public and the press. That's not blaming or faulting the citizens of Hong Kong - they were not in the same position to fight militarily as was Ukraine. But the lack of a shooting war meant fewer headlines, and less attention because there was no world-startling singular moment equivalent to Russia tanks rolling over the Ukraine border.
And, of course, the Chinese takeover of Hong Kong was a fait d'accompli, and the Russian invasion of Ukraine isn't.
Where exactly is the flaw in that reasoning?
“”Don’t get me wrong - Hong Kong had no real chance militarily against China and it would have been a futile gesture. I’m not blaming them for not committing suicide.”
Ok, but I don’t think it is an explanation for the question.
That’s not why Ukraine gets the coverage and obsession whereas Hong Kong is ignored.
And there was a lot of street fighting among youth and police. It was not meant to kill anyone though on either side.
Firebombs and Molotov cocktails, barricades. Meant to show their resistance and to delay police from getting to demonstrations.
Wars always dominate the news.
What is your alternative explanation? I honestly have do idea.
It’s actually pretty easy. We’ve always understood that Hong Kong was going to revert back to Chinese control when the “lease” expired. Sure there was lots of talk, especially towards the end, about getting assurances from China that they’d let Hong Kong be Hong Kong. But anybody with a brain knew that would only last until China figured nobody was looking and bring it under full control.
Ukraine is its own country. It has a weird unfortunate history of being conquered a LOT, but still, in the end it’s own place. We knew (well people who paid attention knew) it was a conquered territory in the USSR days, and that if the USSR ended it would be looking to be independent. Which is what happened. And now for 30 years it has been. Until Russia decided to get pissy.
So it’s two vastly different things.
Wars certainly do not dominate the news.
Only certain wars.
The explanation is, I think, two-fold and intertwined. It is an example of actual racism and appeasement of the ChiComs with leftover respect, even adulation, of the regime from the 60’s New Left days when “China” was seen as at the forefront of human evolution, socially and politically (remember Shirley MacClaine?). Simultaneously it became the cheap labor utopia. Unlimited slave or neo-slave labor.
If China were a European nation the outrage over their despotism would be never ending. But they are just Chinese. Our liberals don’t care.
They serve as a great market and partner for the technototalitarinism that our companies invented which is implemented in China, slowly being phased in here and in other “western” nations.
[Ok, but I don’t think it is an explanation for the question.
That’s not why Ukraine gets the coverage and obsession whereas Hong Kong is ignored.
And there was a lot of street fighting among youth and police. It was not meant to kill anyone though on either side.
Firebombs and Molotov cocktails, barricades. Meant to show their resistance and to delay police from getting to demonstrations.]
Ultimately, if you want foreign support, you need to risk your lives in large numbers, and be able to pose, in manpower and material terms, some likelihood of at least keeping your cause alive. Ukraine fits that classification. Hong Kong doesn’t. And if Taiwan continues along its present course, and doesn’t put tens of thousands of Chinese troops in the ground if they attempt to cross the Formosa Strait, the nation will be treated more or less the same way as Hong Kong.
If the Taiwanese are prepared to fight, we will probably back them with weaponry and non-military supplies. That will likely also involve sinking Chinese shipping and shooting down Chinese aircraft if they mount a blockade or declare an exclusion zone covering the island and its waters. But if Taiwan falls to a Chinese invasion in short order, the way Kiev was supposed to be occupied in 3 days, I doubt the cavalry is going to show up for a war the Taiwanese aren’t willing to fight themselves.
If there was active fighting going on between Hong Kong troops and Chinese invaders, complete with videos of Chinese ships being sunk, it would be all over the news. I’m not exactly sure what you expect anyone to cover on a day to day basis at this point, though. There are no battles, no speeches, no videos...it’s just sort of the same mundane oppression that’s been going on all over the world for a long time. Hell, it didn’t dominate the news even when it was the old Soviet Union oppressing white people in Eastern Europe. Not unless there was actual shooting like in 1956 or 1968.
“The problem is that demonstrations by tiny numbers of people in the streets, combined with little more than contrary opinions from the vast majority of the populace suggest that discontent isn’t anywhere like that in Ukraine.”
There were literally millions of people demonstrating for years and when the law was introduced, it went in for weeks.
The district elections also showed near universal support for Hong Kong’s continued autonomy.
It’s hard to know why you say such ludicrous things.
You obviously did not follow the events.
You are subtle but show yourself as 共匪 a fair amount.
[There were literally millions of people demonstrating for years and when the law was introduced, it went in for weeks.
The district elections also showed near universal support for Hong Kong’s continued autonomy.
It’s hard to know why you say such ludicrous things.
You obviously did not follow the events.
You are subtle but show yourself as 共匪 a fair amount.]
You want Uncle Sam to risk anything significant on your behalf, you’d better show that you are able and willing to do what is necessary. And that involves both killing and risking death.
You just make crap up.
[You just make crap up.]
You want the West to open its collective wallet and risk war with China - you need to take risks. Failing that - there’s always the UK, where literally millions of Hongkongers are eligible for working papers and eventual citizenship, which is more than it has provided to its fellow white European Christians from Ukraine.
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