Posted on 05/05/2022 3:37:28 AM PDT by tlozo
The 90 M777 howitzers that the United States is providing to Ukraine will not only make it more difficult for the Russians to move out in the open but the guns could also support a future Ukrainian offensive to reclaim Russian-occupied parts of their country, experts told Task & Purpose.
About 70 of the 155 mm guns along with roughly 70,000 artillery rounds have been transferred to Ukraine so far, a senior defense official told reporters on Monday. More than 200 Ukrainian troops are expected to be trained on how to operate the howitzers by the end of Monday with another 50 Ukrainian service members scheduled to begin training later this week.
The first Ukrainian artillerymen were trained by Canadian troops and other Ukrainians were taught how to operate the howitzers by Florida National Guardsmen, the senior defense official said at a Pentagon news briefing. Those guardsmen had been on a training mission inside Ukraine before the Russian invasion and now they are continuing their mission in Germany.
Even in this age of modern – and often over-engineered – weapons systems, artillery has proven its worth time and again on the battlefield. During the 2017 fight to drive the Islamic State group from its former capital of Raqqa, Syria, a Marine artillery detachment fired so many 155 mm rounds in support of Syrian Democratic Forces that they burned out the barrels of two of their M777 howitzers.
“The one thing on artillery is: We’ve always called it ‘the king of battle,’ back to Napoleonic times, just because there’s really no defense against it once it’s firing,” said Marine Col. James W. Frey, a senior military fellow at the Center for a New American Security think tank in Washington, D.C.
Another inherent advantage of artillery is that it can be fired in all weather conditions and at any time of day or night, Frey told Task & Purpose.
The howitzers will help Ukrainian forces hinder the Russian’s ability to maneuver, he said. Because it’s muddy in spring, the Russians are likely to stick to the roads when they move. Using drones and other forms of reconnaissance, the Ukrainians can constantly monitor those roads and strike with artillery when needed.
“The artillery just gives you a lot more options 24/7 without having to expose people within that distance,” Frey said.
Since the Ukrainians know their own territory better than the Russians, they can also design their defenses to channel Russian advances into kill zones, where the Russian forces could be destroyed by artillery, Frey said.
“There’s only so many lines of communication to go in and out for those roads – especially if you’re working heavier equipment and logistics that the Russians are depending on,” Frey said. “You could certainly knock that out because there’s only so many avenues of approach that they could use.
The Defense Department is also providing Ukrainian forces with 14 counter-artillery radars. Combined with those radars, which the Ukrainians have been receiving since 2015, the howitzers will allow Ukrainian forces to target and attack Russian tube and rocket artillery, said retired Army Lt. Gen. Ben Hodges, former commander of U.S. Army Europe.
“The radar intercepts incoming artillery and then your own guns can shoot back at where it came from quickly,” Hodges said. “This is an important part of the fight. And so, providing the Ukrainians additional artillery will enable them to destroy – or at least disrupt – the Russian artillery and rocket launchers that are causing the most damage against Ukrainians – but also against towns and cities.”
Artillery is generally used against targets in the open, such as air defense systems, logistics areas, and convoys of lightly armored vehicles, Hodges said. Other prime targets for artillery include command posts and headquarters.
“If you discover a division or combined arms army headquarters in a village or set up somewhere – that’s exactly what you would want to do, is hammer that with artillery,” Hodges said.
The Ukrainians claim they have already killed and wounded several Russian general officers by attacking enemy command posts, including Chief of the General Staff of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation, General of the Army Valery Gerasimov. However, U.S. officials have not confirmed these claims.
As well as providing the Ukrainians with a strong defensive capability, the howitzers would also allow Ukrainian forces to switch to offense, Hodges said. “If there is a counterattack of any sort by the Ukrainians or a conventional counter-offensive, they will need the artillery to support their attack as well,” he said.
There are two ways the Ukrainians could use their new howitzers to go on the attack: They could fire massive barrages to blow holes through the Russian lines, or they could destroy Russian artillery ahead of the attack, said retired Army Col. Tom Davis, who led the 4th Battalion, 82nd Field Artillery Regiment in the 3rd Armored Division during the 1991 Gulf War.
Every time the Russians fire one of their own artillery pieces, they will have to pack up and move to avoid the Ukrainian counter fire, Davis told Task & Purpose. The Russians also tend to concentrate their artillery “hub-to-hub” while the U.S. military keeps artillery units spread out as a form of protection.
Ultimately, the Ukrainians should receive a total of 183,000 artillery rounds for their M777 howitzers, according to the Defense Department. To put that number into perspective, Davis said that his battalion fired fewer than 1,000 rounds during the Gulf War’s four-day ground campaign.
“If they’re getting 180,000 some-odd rounds, that should give them a pretty good capability to diminish and significantly degrade a lot of the Russian artillery,” Davis told Task & Purpose. “And if they can find the [Russian] logistics spots – if they can find the places where they’ve got their supply trains, where they’ve got the fuel trucks, where they’ve got their own intel command and control organizations – if they can find those places and can take them out, then they’re going to get a real significant advantage because, apparently, the Russians are really struggling with command and control as it is.”
Your side painted that picture. You need to be explaining what happened to the mighty 50 ft tall Russians.
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The Western super majors pulling out is devastating long term for Russian oil and gas development.
6 M777s have been sent by Canada plus they have been training the Ukies in their use. Guess who else has been training the Ukies for a while and now doing this in Germany? The freakin’ Florida National Guard!
Australia has sent 4 M777s to Ukraine.
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A Florida National Guard unit that evacuated Ukraine in February has a new mission: continuing to train Ukrainian troops, this time outside of Ukraine.
The 160 members of the 53rd Infantry Brigade Combat Team were recently reunited with their Ukrainian partners, Pentagon spokesman John Kirby said Friday.
The Guard soldiers first arrived in Ukraine late last year, and still have months to go on their original deployment orders.
“So they’ll do the bulk of it,” Kirby said. “But I’m not going to go so far as to say that all of it will be done just by the Florida National Guard.”
Germany will be one of the host countries, Kirby added, declining to name the other. The Guardsmen will train Ukrainian troops on equipment sent in two recent aid packages, including radars and tactical vehicles.
Canada’s Minister of National Defence Anita Anand confirmed Thursday that Canada is leading training on the M777 howitzer systems that both the U.S. and Canada have sent to Eastern Europe.
As of Friday, Kirby said, a second group of 50 Ukrainian troops is receiving week-long howitzer training, after which they’ll return home and train their own troops to operate the artillery systems. The howitzers began arriving in Ukraine over the past week.
https://www.defensenews.com/news/pentagon-congress/2022/04/29/florida-guardsmen-heading-to-germany-to-continue-training-ukrainian-troops/
I have developed what may be a bad habit. I watch a lot of You Tube foreign English language videos to learn what is really going on. The MSM is superficial and Fox seems to follow the template internationally.
I’ll check this guy out......thanks
“The Western super majors pulling out is devastating long term for Russian oil and gas development.”
Yup! My lazy assumption was that Russkies did this in house. I suppose Russkies can bring in Chinese to help on this end. But at this point I don’t think the CCP is going to help out Pooty who is getting a cancer operation, and might not be alive much longer.
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De nada!
I have a few questions...
1) why are the infrastructure, power, communications etc. still standing?
2) why are russia’s best tanks still in the barns in russia?
3) why are russia’s best crack troops still in russia?
4) why are russia’s best ships still in port ( that old rusted tub that sunk is not among the best )
5) why are russia’s best aircraft still in the barn?
Once you answer all these questions, you will know what the msm does not want you to know
Can these things hit a moving target?
Ours are integrated with a computerized targeting system that improves their accuracy and reduces the time to aim considerably. Ours are also capable of firing rocket assisted shells for much greater range and also precision munitions.
US artillery is, generally speaking, out-ranged by Russian artillery.
90 M-777 and 183,000 rounds, if they were all there right now, are too few, too late to make any real difference. Ukraine war is more like WWII than Iraq.
Russia had about 4000 tubes at the start; Ukraine had about 1500 tubes. Whatever the West sends has to be in the thousands of tubes and ammo to match. One report had the UA expending 100,000 shells a week.
By Russian interdiction of rail roads, locomotives, electrical power stations, and bridges, there is no assurity that new arrivals and ammo will reach the front.
Quick Comparisons:
Ukraine 1500 tubes at start
US 90 tubes
90 - Towed M-777: Effective firing range: 14.9 mi; ERFB: 18.6 mi base bleed; M795: 17.8- 23 mi; Excalibur: 24 mi
0 - M109 155 mm turreted self-propelled howitzer: Effective firing range: conventional: 13 mi, RAP:19 mi (4 rnds min) {new version has greater range - not or just becoming operational}
German 7 tubes
7 - Self-propelled Panzerhaubitze 2000: Effective firing range: DM121 Boattail: 19–22 mi; M1711 Base bleed: 25–29 mi; RAP: 42 mi
VS
Russian 4000 tubes at start
Towed 152 mm howitzer 2A65 Msta-B: Maximum firing range: 18.0 mi
Towed 2A36 Giatsint-B, Effective firing range (OFS): 19mi; (OFARS) 25mi
Self-propelled 2S7 Pion or Malka, 203mm heavy artillery: Effective firing range 23.3 mi to 34.5 mi
Self-propelled 2S35 Koalitsiya-SV, 152.4mm or 155mm, Effective firing range 24.8 mi - 49.7 mi (16 rnds min)
Self-propelled 2S1 Gvozdika, 122 mm 2A18 howitzer, Effective firing range 9.5 mi Extended: 13.6 mi (5 rnds min)
The the mobile radar can pinpoint enemy artillery from up to 20 miles away.
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Until the Orlon-10 artillery battery drone spots them.
Unlike ARVN or the Afghans, the Ukrainians definitely have the will to fight.
Azov is a Ukraine militia Battalion and are only “Nazis” according to Orc propaganda - repeating the accusation is to become another Orc stooge.
The Orc forces have been trying to close their pincer from Izyum to Leyman for weeks and, despite a huge increase in troops, have not moved any significant distance. They do not have enough troops and enough first rate troops left to go much beyond where they are now.
Ukraine has shown effectively that drones can effectively destroy tanks and armor and.......artillery
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Only according to the videos posted. Other than those videos, there is no evidence of how the vehicles were destroyed. Most analysts believe artillery destroyed most of the vehicles; manpads and drone account for a much smaller percent.
Arty rounds are even cheaper than drones.
The latest version of Exacaliber rounds are laser guided.
How many are being sent to Ukraine is unknown.
Good for 20 mi
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against Orc artillery batteries with 2x the range.
There is overlap. Cheapest drones are $400. Most expensive artillery rounds are over $20,000.
I was a trained artilleryman, but never really worked in my MOS, although was assigned to an artillery unit for 5 years. The trick is, when your howitzer fires a round 14 miles and th other guys can fire 8 miles, the guy shooting 8 miles has a problem. Even in the late 70s when I was in, as soon as you shot a couple rounds from a battery, it moved because of ground radar back then. They even have what s called “fuze hole” analysis, where all it takes is a couple sticks to calculate where a round came from.
I take your point but my lost point was that drones can effectively seek out, actually see and then destroy artillery
Artillery to be accurate requires spotters. Drones can be spotter/killers it seems to me. I guess the drones can spot or the guns ad not need the killer capability to be effective
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