Posted on 11/23/2021 9:18:55 AM PST by ChicagoConservative27
Jurors in the Ahmaud Arbery slay case started deliberating Tuesday over the fate of the three white men accused of killing the black unarmed jogger in Georgia last year.
Gregory McMichael, 65, his son Travis McMichael, 35, and their neighbor William “Roddie” Bryan, 52, are charged with murder, aggravated assault and other crimes in the shooting death of Arbery, 25, who they suspected was fleeing a burglary as he ran through their neighborhood near Brunswick.
Superior Court Judge Timothy Walmsley told the jurors Tuesday, “It is your duty to consider the facts objectively without favor, affection, or sympathy to anyone.”
Walmsley directed them to retire to the jury room, where they began officially deliberating the case at 11:53 a.m..
(Excerpt) Read more at nypost.com ...
“What would you do if you thought someone was going to shoot you?”
In this situation I’d sit and wait with them till the cops got there, which would have been what happened. Then I’d sue for false imprisonment.
A lot of you articulate the idea that Arbery was frightened and did what he did out of desperation. It is clear the idea never occurred to you that Arbery saw himself as a baller and wasn't frightened, but instead was angry and tried to put a baller move on the guy holding the shotgun.
I think it is the unfamiliarity many people on Free Republic have with the black "gangsta" underclass that motivates them to believe Arbery acted out of fear, because that makes sense to them.
I have spent a lot of time with people in this group, and they are often not afraid when they very well should be. I had several "gangsta" friends and I used to party with them just a mere decade ago. They would never let someone see them as cowering in fear. They would act aggressively and violently when provoked.
Have you listened to "gangsta rap" music? I've listened to it more than I liked, but that is what my friends wanted to hear, so that's what we listened to. I even came to like a few of the songs. This one for example.
"Never Scared" by "Bonecrusher."
Listen to the words. It conveys the mindset quite well.
You don't let people treat you like a "punk." You fight back violently. This is Arbery's lifestyle and this is what he believed, and you and others like you think he was frightened because you don't have any familiarity with his peer group.
I hope i've given you some insight.
“There’s a guy in the house right now; it’s under construction,” the man told the dispatcher...The next sentence is garbled. “And he’s been caught on camera a bunch at night.""As for the emergency call on the afternoon of Feb. 23, the Glynn-Brunswick 911 dispatcher never got a clear answer to her question. The man said Arbery was walking inside an open home that apparently had been under construction for some time, according to transcripts. Also, Arbery ran.The 911 center received a second call from the Satilla Shores neighborhood moments later, at 1:14 p.m.
Arbery had been seen recently on surveillance video in the neighborhood, according to the first caller.
“There’s a guy in the house right now; it’s under construction,” the man told the dispatcher.
The man then gave her an address.
“Ok,” the dispatcher said, “What is he doing?”
“He’s running down the street,” the man said. The next sentence is garbled.
“And he’s been caught on camera a bunch at night. It’s kind of an ongoing thing. The man building the house has got heart issues. I think he’s not going to finish it.”
“Where at Satilla Shores?” the dispatcher asked.
“I don’t know what street we’re on,” the man replied.
“Stop!” he can be heard shouting. “Watch that. Stop, damn it! Stop!"
"Barnhill argued in his recusal letter that the McMichaels had “solid first hand probable cause” that Arbery was a burglary suspect. Barnhill did not elaborate on what that probable cause was or how he’d reached that conclusion, although two thefts had occurred in the neighborhood in the first two months of the year. One was a theft of $2,500 worth of fishing equipment from English’s property, which he said he didn’t report to police but confirmed to The Daily Beast. The second report was of the theft of a 9mm handgun from Travis McMichael’s unlocked truck, which was first obtained by the Brunswick News.In his letter, Barnhill said that “Arbery’s mental health records and prior convictions help explain his apparent aggressive nature and his possible thought pattern to attack an armed man.” Arbery was convicted of bringing a handgun to Brunswick High School in 2013, court records show. He was also convicted of stealing a television from Walmart in 2017."
“They would never let someone see them as cowering in fear. They would act aggressively and violently when provoked.”
It also confirms the 5 Laws Of Stupidity.
https://medium.com/mind-cafe/the-5-basic-laws-of-human-stupidity-513de9dd0bd5
L
The defendants saw Arbery running, and saw that he did not have a weapon. The son admitted that he raised his rifle and pointed it at Arbery before Arbery made any threatening move towards him. That, right there, is the unreasonable and illegal - action that triggered the fatal shooting.
Had the son not raised his weapon and pointed it at Arbery first, and only pointed it at Arbery after Arbery made a threatening move towards him, it would be a different case.
The son raised his weapon and pointed it at Arbery not to protect himself, but to prevent Arbery from running away. And that is the point at which the claim of self-defense collapses.
It also is the point at which this case diverges from Rittenhouse shooting the third attacker. The third attacker raising his gun and pointing it at Rittenhouse is what gave Rittenhouse the right to shoot him. Rittenhouse was not required to wait and see if Grosskreutz would actually pull the trigger, just as arbury was not required to wait and see if the weapon pointed at him would be fired before attempting to take it from the defendant.
If the answer to that is no - and the evidence says that is the case - what was the son's justification for pointing his weapon at an unarmed man?
It is known by them that a 9mm was stolen earlier. How can you tell a man doesn't have a 9mm tucked into his waistband behind his back?
The son admitted that he raised his rifle and pointed it at Arbery before Arbery made any threatening move towards him.
Shotgun. And now you have me wondering if you've bothered to actually learn the facts of what happened.
That, right there, is the unreasonable and illegal - action that triggered the fatal shooting.
Disagree. I believe I saw something to the effect that the younger McMichael saw Arbery as making a threatening move towards his father. I also think the younger McMichael had no way of knowing whether Arbery was armed or not. It is quite common for street thugs to carry a gun in their waistband.
The son raised his weapon and pointed it at Arbery not to protect himself, but to prevent Arbery from running away.
I recall reading that he stated he did it because he thought Arbery was going to attack his father. If you have some source that claims he said he did it to prevent Arbery from running away, I will read it.
Rittenhouse the right to shoot him. Rittenhouse was not required to wait and see if Grosskreutz would actually pull the trigger, just as arbury was not required to wait and see if the weapon pointed at him would be fired before attempting to take it from the defendant.
Didn't the first guy Rittenhouse shot grab his gun and try to take it away from him? I recall reading the Prosecutor talking about how strong the strap was, and therefore it was impossible for this guy to take his gun away from him.
Apparently it was justified to shoot the guy when he tried to take the gun.
Most people make up their mind first, then go looking for information that supports what they want to believe.
They were not cops. They were not wearing badges and uniforms. We are required to surrender to COPS. We are not required to surrender to assholes running around with guns threatening to blow our heads off!
“The “pursuit” has nothing to do with it.”
Absolute HOGWASH! If you pursue someone and are the aggressor, you lose the right to self-defense. You can’t race after someone, threaten to blow their head off, and then whine, “But he fought back!”
Those guys were and are pathetic, racist assholes who give those of us who carry a bad name. I’m ashamed white guys acted like that.
” I think too many Americans have become cowed into being p*ssies who think letting thieves get away is a reasonable thing to do.”
It is called the law. I can defend myself in my home and I can defend my home against an intruder, but I don’t get to impose the death penalty on a crime that doesn’t CARRY the death penalty!
I hope YOU don’t CCW because if you do and you act out what you say, your butt will go to prison.
So they weren't cops, but they were within a reasonable interpretation of Georgia law to do exactly what they did.
Absolute HOGWASH! If you pursue someone and are the aggressor, you lose the right to self-defense. You can’t race after someone, threaten to blow their head off, and then whine, “But he fought back!”
Words versus actions. You can't "assault" someone with words. You have to physically do something to them. They clearly had no intention of shooting him else they would have done so as he was running up to the truck. I imagine the father is a decent shot having been a police officer for 20 years.
Those guys were and are pathetic, racist assholes who give those of us who carry a bad name. I’m ashamed white guys acted like that.
You are making it a racial thing. I am happy when white crooks get shot too. As a matter of fact, if Arbery was white, this case would have been dropped and charges would never have been filed at all.
I think a lot of Freepers immediately make this into a racial thing, and then they want to virtue signal by condemning these guys for doing something that would not bother them at all had they did it to a white guy.
What they are really saying is "I want everyone to see how non racist I am!" That's the vibe i'm getting.
Me? I try to see everything objectively. The guy was a crook who got shot when he attacked a man with a gun. Case closed.
It is called the law. I can defend myself in my home and I can defend my home against an intruder, but I don’t get to impose the death penalty on a crime that doesn’t CARRY the death penalty!
Mens rea.
No intent.
I hope YOU don’t CCW because if you do and you act out what you say, your butt will go to prison.
I don't carry a gun, and I mostly live in an area and in a manner where I usually don't have to worry about violent crime. Perhaps I should be more cautious and at least keep one nearby, but so far i've seen no likely threat to my peace and tranquility.
In the Arbery case, the son admitted pointing his weapon at Arbury before Arbury made any move to threaten him. The moment he did that, Arbury had the right to defend himself by trying to take the weapon away from the son.
That's one reason why you should never point a gun at someone unless you attend to shoot them. The mere act of pointing that gun at someone is them the right to use legal deadly force against you.
Three random guys chase you down and say stop or we’ll blow your head off while aiming at least 1 gun at you do you automatically assume these are upright people who won’t just blow you away anyway?
Nice drama there Karen, but thats not how it happened. They asked him to come over and then said he was under arrest. He punched one of them and the gun was pulled. He reached for the gun and lost.
You may want to reread Travis' testimony. He said he pointed the weapon at Arbery first to try to "de-escalate." After he raised the weapon and pointed it at Arbery, Arbery then turned. Travis was concerned at that point that Arbery would hurt his father, so he moved.towards Arbery and engaged him. But the pointing of the weapon came first. That was on direct examination.
On cross, the prosecutor got him to Travis to admit directly that Arbery made no threatening move until after a gun was pointed at him.
No point in arguing further since this is a fact dispute. I'd agree that IF Arbery moved to assault either McMichael before Travis pointed a gun at him, then they have a valid claim of self defense. However, if Travis pointed the gun at armory before he made any threatening move, then they have no valid claim of self-defense, and should be convicted.
“You can’t “assault” someone with words.”
You do too. You INNITIATE a reasonable fear of death when you grab a gun and shout, “I’m going to blow your head off!” He doesn’t need to wait for you to start shooting! And following someone in a truck and threatening them - very expressly threatening to blow their head off - is more than enough to make you “The Aggressor” - who then has no right to “self-defense”!
“if Arbery was white, this case would have been dropped”
I’m white, and I sure as hell hope it wouldn’t be dropped if it happened to me!
“I think a lot of Freepers immediately make this into a racial thing”
I think you want to make it “The South is Always Right” thing. My daughter moved to Georgia 3 years ago. It took her a long time to find a church in part, she said, because there was open racism in many churches. Which shocked her, having been raised in Baptist churches in the western USA.
You think if three blacks had chased down and killed a white guy that no one in Georgia would have blinked? Not buying that.
“No intent.”
That will be for the jury to decide. I think Ahmaud Arbery had TONS of reason to fear for his life based on the words and actions of three men. He had the right of self-defense and they lost theirs when they started chasing someone who had committed no crime that they knew of!
Go to the Legal Insurrection website and you can view some of the videos of the trial and Andrew Branca’s thoughts regarding the testimony. He is an amazing source of information when it comes to self-defense cases.
No drama at all. They TESTIFIED to telling him to stop or they’d blow his head off. That’s their own words. That’s a threat. Anything they said after was furthering the threat.
How is that any different from a cop?
Through the truck? Because Arbery was running at him around the truck. If I saw someone running at me, I would be pointing my gun at them too.
You and I have a different idea about "move to threaten him." I interpreted everything Arbrey did as threatening.
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