Replies

“…many Southerners from low-slave areas welcomed Union “invasion”..”

First of all, there is no need to put quotes on it - it was an invasion.

Secondly, you are wrong that many welcomed the invasion.
I would agree, however, that they did indeed welcome an end to slavery.

I would even agree that there were secondary “benefits” of slavery that accrued to non slave owners - i.e. to the degree that the general economy was improved by it, one could argue that everyone “benefited”.

But I use quotes there, because slavery clearly was not considered a benefit to the vast majority of southerners - it was considered a curse, not a blessing.

Even in the colonial south, there was fierce resistance to the slave trade and the slave-based economy that was forced on them by the crown under the charter system. Governors of every slave colony routinely petitioned the crown pleading to be compensated in gold instead of slaves - these petitions were denied. As the slave population grew exponentially, most southerners - especially the slave owners - considered it a ticking time-bomb which could only end badly - for two reasons, neither of which were very noble:

1) when slaves finally outnumber non-slaves, is like releasing a tiger from its cage. How do you do it without getting eaten?
2) when the crown has refused to pay you in gold, and only pays in slaves, how do you relinquish all those “assets” without causing mass bankruptcy?

I realize these reasons for wanting to be rid of slavery are nothing compared to the man reason - the fact that it is immoral - I’m just saying the South had many reasons to wish it gone - and yet they also had many fears of ending it in the wrong way.

Many abolitionists were southerners. I don’t know if you were aware of this, but the crown imposed a fine of something like $100k(?) on those who chose to free a slave - and many, many land owners spent their fortunes freeing their slaves.

But I think the main point I wish to argue is not the guilt or innocence of southerners vs northerners, or what % were guilty and what % innocent.

My point is that Lincoln fought that tragic war to prevent the south from seceding - not to end slavery - but because the north needed the south to be politically and economically subservient - ironically, the north was tied the south as a vassal state - a slave state (ironically).

“Preserving the Union” meant preserving the circumstance in which the northern industrialists’ could exert political dominance over the southern agricultural base. It wasn’t an act of conscience in any way, shape or form.

enumerated: "First of all, there is no need to put quotes on it - it was an invasion.
Secondly, you are wrong that many welcomed the invasion.
I would agree, however, that they did indeed welcome an end to slavery"

The quotes on "invasion" belong there because regions similar to the Appalachian mountains from NC to TN & WVA had few to no slaves in 1860, so voted against secession, and welcomed Union troops to protect them from Confederates.

enumerated: "My point is that Lincoln fought that tragic war to prevent the south from seceding - not to end slavery - but because the north needed the south to be politically and economically subservient - ironically, the north was tied the south as a vassal state - a slave state (ironically)."

A lot of your post here is true & understandable enough, but this sentence is a lie, or several lies wrapped into one sentence.
Begin here: Lincoln did not start the war, he responded to Confederate threats, provocations & starting war at Fort Sumter -- that was Jefferson Davis' choice, made despite warnings against it:

"Mr. President

, at this time it is suicide, murder, and will lose us every friend at the North.
You will wantonly strike a hornet's nest which extends from mountain to ocean, and legions now quiet will swarm out and sting us to death.
It is unnecessary; it puts us in the wrong; it is fatal."[19]

But Davis ignored Toombs' perfectly sound advice and the results were just as predicted.

Second, Civil War was indeed about preserving the Union, first, but Union leaders very quickly saw the destruction of Confederate slavery as necessary to military victory.
And since that matched exactly with Republican moral values, it soon became law (August 1861) and eventually the 13th Amendment.

Third, your claim that, "the north needed the south to be politically and economically subservient" is total, complete bovine excrement.
What the Union did need was the destruction of Confederacy and abolition of their slavery.
Once that was accomplished -- between 1865 & 1876 -- the South resumed its normal place in the Union.

enumerated: "“Preserving the Union” meant preserving the circumstance in which the northern industrialists’ could exert political dominance over the southern agricultural base.
It wasn’t an act of conscience in any way, shape or form."

And yet again the total lie.
You should stop lying, FRiend, no matter how good it feeeeels, lying is very bad for your soul, and will make you sick in the head.
So stop doing it, FRiend.
Once you get over "truth sickness" you'll feel much better, long term.