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To: enumerated; FLT-bird; DiogenesLamp; jmacusa; TwelveOfTwenty
enumerated: "The southerners who actually fought, were NOT fighting to keep slavery.
My great-grandfather was one of them, and we have all of his letters.
He and everyone he fought with were fighting to protect their homeland from economic tyranny and invasion."

I have no doubt that's true for you, meaning the statistics for how many Confederate troops owned slaves are disputed, but the commonly acknowledged number at the time was 25%, so 75% did not, and that likely included your great-grandfather.

But a problem with your argument is it ignores the fact: virtually 100% of Confederate leadership, including army officers, were indeed slaveholders, many owned large numbers of slaves and so all would suffer economically by uncompensated abolition.
And that's what they meant by your term "economic tyranny".

Plus you might remember that many Southerners from low-slave areas welcomed Union "invasion" -- in regions like West Virginia, eastern Tennessee, western North Carolina, northern regions of Alabama, Arkansas, Texas, Missouri & Kentucky plus western Maryland, among others.
Those Southerners had no love for Confederates and were happy to see them driven out of their own Southern homelands.

248 posted on 10/05/2021 1:52:24 PM PDT by BroJoeK (future DDG 134 -- we remember)
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To: BroJoeK

“…many Southerners from low-slave areas welcomed Union “invasion”..”

First of all, there is no need to put quotes on it - it was an invasion.

Secondly, you are wrong that many welcomed the invasion.
I would agree, however, that they did indeed welcome an end to slavery.

I would even agree that there were secondary “benefits” of slavery that accrued to non slave owners - i.e. to the degree that the general economy was improved by it, one could argue that everyone “benefited”.

But I use quotes there, because slavery clearly was not considered a benefit to the vast majority of southerners - it was considered a curse, not a blessing.

Even in the colonial south, there was fierce resistance to the slave trade and the slave-based economy that was forced on them by the crown under the charter system. Governors of every slave colony routinely petitioned the crown pleading to be compensated in gold instead of slaves - these petitions were denied. As the slave population grew exponentially, most southerners - especially the slave owners - considered it a ticking time-bomb which could only end badly - for two reasons, neither of which were very noble:

1) when slaves finally outnumber non-slaves, is like releasing a tiger from its cage. How do you do it without getting eaten?
2) when the crown has refused to pay you in gold, and only pays in slaves, how do you relinquish all those “assets” without causing mass bankruptcy?

I realize these reasons for wanting to be rid of slavery are nothing compared to the man reason - the fact that it is immoral - I’m just saying the South had many reasons to wish it gone - and yet they also had many fears of ending it in the wrong way.

Many abolitionists were southerners. I don’t know if you were aware of this, but the crown imposed a fine of something like $100k(?) on those who chose to free a slave - and many, many land owners spent their fortunes freeing their slaves.

But I think the main point I wish to argue is not the guilt or innocence of southerners vs northerners, or what % were guilty and what % innocent.

My point is that Lincoln fought that tragic war to prevent the south from seceding - not to end slavery - but because the north needed the south to be politically and economically subservient - ironically, the north was tied the south as a vassal state - a slave state (ironically).

“Preserving the Union” meant preserving the circumstance in which the northern industrialists’ could exert political dominance over the southern agricultural base. It wasn’t an act of conscience in any way, shape or form.


254 posted on 10/05/2021 3:25:52 PM PDT by enumerated
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To: BroJoeK
and with that, that is the last of my time you will get to steal. I'm not going to bother with any more of your PC Revisionist lies and BS no matter how desperately you try to steal more of my time by spamming this thread endlessly with your drivel.

Get a life. Develop some hobbies. Make some friends. Try doing something other than seeking me out and then spamming these threads endlessly with same tired old BS.

261 posted on 10/05/2021 5:46:13 PM PDT by FLT-bird
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