[ChicagoConservative27]

Biden has accepted full responsibility??? HAHAHAHAHAH

[Organic Panic]

And as sure as the sun rising in the east the dutiful media whores blame everything and everyone but the child sniffing pervert installed as president.

[DoughtyOne]

It is mentally impossible for a Democrat to take ownership.

They’ll blame Annette Funicello if they think they can get
away with it.

[Ceebass]

But the country was lost in the summer of 2002, not 2021....

I can quibble with some of the articles sub points, but I could never understand the stategery of staying on after the taliban were swept from the field in 2002.

The official line was to prevent al quaeda from regaining their bases, however, I beleive the real reasons for us hanging on for 20 years didn’t have much to do with our natl. security.

[DoughtyOne]

blithering idiot Biden...

Folks, the quote was, "It takes a village".

It wasn't, "It takes a village idiot".

[DoughtyOne]

Forrest Biden...

...to the rescue.

Only in real life you don’t get a Leftist rewrite.

[peter the great]

We were never allowed to win that war. i may be mistaking but we were worried about their POWs walking around with Panties on their head and Waterboarding while those guys decapitated people. So give me a break.

[NormsRevenge]

RoE.

Right from the start.

Protecting opium fields?
Taking hits knowingly?

There’s plenty of credit to go around on this fiasco.

[SmokingJoe]

Last time George Bush was President, it was January 2009, that was over 12 years ago.
Obama had a filibuster proof US Senate majority when he assumed power. Plus the Dems had a majority in The House. And Obama was in power for 8 years. What stopped Obama from ending the war?

[discostu]

I’d say Afghanistan lost Afghanistan. When you get right down to it if they’d wanted to form a useful self-sufficient government they would have.

[SES1066]

"Sir Robert Fry completed a full military career that included appointments as the Commandant General of the Royal Marines and Deputy Commanding General of coalition forces in Iraq. After military service, he became a vice president of Hewlett Packard and chair of Albany Associates. He is a visiting professor at King’s College, London"

He has some very pertinent points in this full article. He is not saying that we should not have gone into Afghanistan, he IS SAYING that we should not have stayed past replacing Mullah Omar and the Taliban regime with the Karzai one. His view was that was victory and we should have declared it done.

My remembrance varies here as it always appeared that the Karzai regime was shaky & very corrupt & likely to fall apart then without US/NATO. I recall that there were always alarms about the untouchable Pakistan Northwest Territories where the Taliban was regrowing. Thus we tried and FAILED at yet another effort at Nation-Building!

As the Bible says about the path(s) to Hell. Let us once again resolve to not do this again!

[NicoDon]

Robert Fry is an utter moron.

Who lost Afghanistan? Who ordered the pull out of the soldiers before the non-combatants? That is who lost it.

[Osage Orange]

Everyone here is a genius.....

That's what I like about FR....

HA!

[dynachrome]

Who was that half-rican that was in the white hut for 8 years?

[Bratch]

How Bush Ruined Everything

For all his faults, Al Gore couldn't have been worse.

By Adam Mill   August 15, 2021

It’s impossible to forget those anxious December days when cherry-picked Florida counties continued to find handfuls of new Gore votes as recount after recount marched the 2000 election result towards a reversal of the apparent Bush victory a month earlier. Eventually the Supreme Court put a stop to the selective process which counted hanging chads in Democratic counties differently than in Republican counties. 

When Bush won, he brought with him a cabal of staffers broadly known as “neoconservatives” who distinguished themselves from traditional Republicans by ignoring deficit spending and strongly supporting interventionist foreign policy with a heavy emphasis on protecting and advancing America’s petro-allies in the Middle East. Months after September 11, 2001, the Bush Administration diverted America’s response to terrorism by seeking a revenge war in Iraq. 

American taxpayers poured trillions of dollars into the Iraq and Afghanistan wars. The wars represented a new golden age for the State Department, the CIA, and the Pentagon, as Americans developed a neo-colonial relationship with the client states in Iraq and Afghanistan. Bush and his allies easily brushed aside the few complaints and warnings from traditional liberals about abuses of civil liberties and the prospect of a never-ending Vietnam-like war. I can still hear the sound of Vice President Dick Cheney chuckling dismissively on the Sunday morning talk shows as he scoffed at these fears. Sure, the wars would be expensive. But “deficits don’t matter” according to the then-vice president.

Oh, what a bitter harvest we have reaped.

History acquitted those chicken-little voices that warned of never-ending wars, ballooning deficits, and the dangers of bloated and politicized intelligence agencies. I admit it. I was wrong about Bush. He was a disaster. 

We’re reminded of this point as we watch the humiliating withdrawal of U.S. forces in Afghanistan. Bush’s critics, who seemed so wrong at the time, have been proven right in the sweep of history. The Iraq and Afghanistan wars turned into the very quagmires that the liberals predicted. The Intelligence Agencies were allowed to pursue and harass Muslims in the United States—even setting some up in “Truman Show”-style prosecutions in which the FBI planned and financed almost every detail of terrorism plots to ensnare lonely, mentally disabled Muslim men. The civil liberties of these “terrorists” didn’t seem very important at the time. The liberals warned that these tactics set dangerous precedents that might later be applied to larger and larger swaths of the public.

So would any of this have been different had Al Gore been elected president? 

While the former vice president is now regarded as a passionate advocate for the environment, this mostly came to pass after he lost the election. His 2000 campaign promised to continue the Clinton-era budget surplus. His foreign policy focused on cooperation and promoting peace. His domestic proposals were modest: $1.6 billion for classroom internet access and a $1500 tax credit for two years of college tuition. Although Al Gore had tremendous faults that made Bush seem more appealing at the time, Gore did not present himself as the type of transformative president that the next three presidents would prove to be. In retrospect, Al Gore may have been the better choice.

Up until September 11, 2001, Gore’s first term would have looked something like a third Bill Clinton term. Assuming the terrorist attacks would have happened in this alternate universe, we can reasonably expect Gore would have reacted differently than Bush did.

First, unlike Bush, Gore had no particular attachment to the situation in Iraq. Bush’s father started the war with Iraq to protect Saudi Arabia from invasion. Iraqi President Saddam Hussein would later attempt to stage an assasination of Bush’s father as revenge. It was personal. Everyone understands that now. In contrast, we can reasonably assume that Gore would have allowed the sanctions regime against Iraq to collapse while he focused on responding to Al Qaeda. 

Obama, not Bush, found and killed Osama bin Laden by circumventing the very duplicitous alliance with Pakistan that Bush had formed in the early part of the war. Gore likely would have borrowed from the Bosnian conflict game plan which relied on airstrikes and very light on-the-ground presence. It’s even possible that Gore would have made a nuclear response instead of attempting to conquer and occupy the entire country of Afghanistan. 

Bill Clinton tangled with the FBI in Arkansas and likely did not trust the intelligence community. Likewise, Gore had his own run-in with the FBI during the 1996 campaign. It’s reasonable to assume that a President Gore would have tempered calls to expand and unleash the FBI.

The awful legacy of George Bush split the Republican party during the 2016 presidential campaign. When Trump correctly criticized neocons for their fruitless wars, they became enraged. Until Trump, the pseudo-intellectual near-imperialists wrapped themselves in a protective costume of patriotic rhetoric. Then Trump said the obvious truth that nobody dared speak: these wars are bad for American interests abroad and at home. The Bush Republicans became Hillary Clinton supporters. 

Rich Republicans across the country followed Bush into the arms of the Democrats as leftists and corporate America formed their unholy alliance that continues to oppress us today. Thanks to Bush, no party now advocates for fiscal restraint or true free-market principles. Yet another part of Bush’s awful legacy is a culture of debt tolerance that has led us to a catastrophic greater-than-GDP public debt one normally associates with a Third-World country.

What did nearly two decades in Afghanistan and Iraq buy us? Thousands of American dead and trillions more in debt, and Afghanistan is swiftly returning to its pre-invasion configuration. Lots of government contractors and retired generals grew very rich pouring American treasure into the land-locked and barren land. The Bushes themselves have become fabulously wealthy, worth hundreds of millions of dollars. Meanwhile it will take many more years for America to recover from their endless wars and crippling debt. That’s why I’m retroactively endorsing Al Gore for the 2000 presidential election. For all of his faults, he couldn’t have been worse.

[Durbin]

Bush started it, Obama continued his policies, Trump tried to end it, and Biden f%^&ed it up.

[Recovering_Democrat]

Bush didn’t lose it.

[dangus]

Every word is contemptible to the level of treason. Had America quit Afghanistan in 2002, Afghanistan would be essentially ISIS in 2003. The U.S. lost Afghanistan when it lost Iraq; it lost Iraq when the calculus was made by cynical politicians and there media lapdogs to count every victim of our enemy as a victim of our war.

We did, however, make an inexcusable mistake: we entered Iraq with the hubris that our goal was to win Iraq’s hearts and minds. With that in mind, our opponent only had to make Iraqis sick of the war, and thereby extension us, and we would lose by our own terms. Japan and Germany came to welcome us because we had conquered them, but we could not win Afghanistan or Iraq until they welcomed us.

The wars needed to be about Osama bin Laden and Sadam Hussein, not about George Bush. Given the choice between a genocidal dictator who leads a nation to utter destruction, and accepting that dictator’s defeat, we might expect a country to choose that dictator’s defeat. Given a choice between a homegrown evil tyrant who brings oppression, and a foreign tyrant who brings endless war, people will choose the homegrown tyrant. And until victory is complete so we can establish justice, prosperity, liberty and safety, we will never be anything other than a foreign tyrant who brings endless war.

Win the war, THEN the hearts and minds.

[sauropod]

.

[Kevmo]

I can agree with this title.

from my home page

I have been advocating for several years a policy I call ‘embaseees’. Embassy + AirBase —> EmBASEeees. We go into a terrorist country, clear out their taliban equivalent, then withdraw to very large Embassies, perhaps 3 of them. Have them big enough to encompass a military airbase where we can use it for decades on end to conduct anti-terrorism operations. As long as the ‘host’ country aint killing Americans then we let them have self-sovereignty. Kind of like how we operated in the Phillipines for decades. We could even have an intermediate zone that we patrol but it would be autonomous. Let them have their taste of freedom. A referendum every 10 years to see how large the boundaries of the intermediate autonomous zone should be.

___________________________________________________________________

[2CAVTrooper]

“In what might prove to be a defining act of his Presidency, Joe Biden has accepted full responsibility for the US withdrawal from Afghanistan.”

The hell he did.

He blamed everyone under the sun and emphasized that it was really all Trump’s fault.