Posted on 11/16/2020 4:08:14 AM PST by Oldeconomybuyer
A new vaccine that protects against Covid-19 is nearly 95% effective, early data from US company Moderna shows.
The results come hot on the heels of similar results from Pfizer, and add to growing confidence that vaccines can help end the pandemic.
Both companies used a highly innovative and experimental approach to designing their vaccines.
Moderna says it is a "great day" and they plan to apply for approval to use the vaccine in the next few weeks.
However, this is still early data and key questions remain unanswered.
(Excerpt) Read more at bbc.com ...
Orange man bad. Xi good.
Which is better?
You’re an idiot
What? We weren't supposed to notice their childishly, half-a%*ed lack of effort to conceal the proximity between the vaccine announcement and the Biden ‘victory’?
COVID utterly vanished from the news Nov 4, after CNN, ABC, NBC, and CBS declared a stunning Biden victory.
It would have stayed vanished, but as soon as the glorious victory started to be called into question it started to reappear...
Thank you for excellent encouragement!
And he/she had no side effects?
I will not be getting any COVID-19 vaccine, not Pfizer’s, not Moderna’s. None.
First, let’s talk numbers. They claim 90% and 95% effectiveness respectively. That seems extremely unlikely. Consider some other common vaccines:
Polio (2 doses) – 90% (up to 99+% at 3 doses) Sounds good, seems like as a species we know what we’re doing.
MMR (2 doses) – 97%, 88%, 97% respectively. Again, makes us sound like we’ve got this pretty well figured out. Although only 88% effectiveness against Mumps after decades of study and tweaking is a little worrying.
Seasonal flu – 2019, 50% (B), 37% (A). Not so good. Against a “moving target” like seasonal flu we don’t seem to have much luck. This is especially worrying when you consider that COVID-19 has a lot more in common with seasonal flu strains than it does with some of the other big diseases. With just a few weeks to develop before moving into trials it seems extremely unlikely they developed a vaccine with such a high effectiveness against such a tough target.
Ok, still, something is better than nothing, right? Not always, it depends on the cost. I read that Pfizer’s trial included over 43,000 test subjects. Sounds impressive. But when you consider the population of the US is 328.2 million you realize their test/trial pool represents something like 0.013% of the US population. Now consider all the possible combinations of DNA, diet, exercise, alcohol, drug use (prescription or otherwise), stress, sunlight exposure, temperatures, exposure to other bacteria/viruses, age, gender, etc. The combinatorial math gets daunting very quickly. In their mere 43,000 test subjects they’d be lucky to have gotten even just one person representing each of the possible combinations. This is nowhere near being close to a statistically significant sampling.
Sure, maybe, probably not all of those variables matter, or matter significantly. But which ones do or don’t? In a rushed trial we just do not know. There are procedures for conducting trials of new drugs and new vaccines. As I understand it the process of developing these, proving they work, proving their side effects are reasonable/manageable is a years long process. Years, not weeks. There is a reason for the procedures. Like submarine and/or aviation checklists and procedures these procedures are “written in blood.” Because they represent knowledge gained at a literal price in blood from injuries and deaths.
Governments and pharmaceutical companies just short-cut at least some if not many of these procedures to varying degrees. How comfortable are you with that? What if the vaccine(s) are ineffective for a significant portion of the population – a demographic missed in the 0.013% of the sample that got it in trial? What are the side effects, both now and say 1, 2, 5, or 10 years down the road? Suppose we end up giving a significant portion of the population other health issues – diabetes, cancer, blindness, sterility…
Sure, these concerns could be written off as mere fear mongering. We should get it to help achieve “herd immunity” and help protect those at risk. I am not an “anti-vaxer” - I’ve had all the usual vaccines. We had our kids get all the usual vaccines. Just like other vaccines, we need to step up and do our part because there are people who cannot take certain vaccines and thus must be protected by those around them. Exactly – with every vaccine there are those who cannot take it. How do I know myself and/or my family members are not one of them? 99.987% of the population has never been exposed to this vaccine. We have no idea what possible consequences there are. If you consider the world population that goes up to 99.9994%.
That was the practical, pragmatic engineer in me talking. Now I’m going to let the more cynical observer of politics, history, and human behavior take the podium.
This COVID-19 thing sure looks like a gift from a particularly benevolent Deity for pharmaceutical companies. Consider the damage done to lives and economies around the world due to this “pandemic.” With the net economic loss in the US alone estimated at $16 trillion dollars is there any expense too much in the pursuit of a cure? Governments and companies are literally throwing money at clinical trials, bypassing or short cutting procedures and red tape. A working vaccine is a golden ticket to a fat bottom line for years to come.
Speaking of years to come. This is COVID-19 where the 19 stands for 2019 the year it was discovered or came into being. What about COVID-20, or COVID-21 or any of the dozens of other “corona” viruses known and yet to be discovered? Sure seems we’ve set the stage to ramp up/down the world panic any time some people decide to make an issue of something or not. Because it is sure looking like COVID-19 was blown completely out of proportion. It now looks like across a large population the survival rate is actually above 99% - that it is less dangerous than seasonal flu. Yes, for some demographics and people with some risk factors it is very bad news. But by and large we just trashed our economies and disrupted virtually everyone’s lives – for nothing. Well, not for nothing. Some powerful people in media and government learned how to use fear to manipulate us. Mark my words, COVID-19 is just the first of perhaps many “pandemics” or other “health crisis” we are going to be faced with in coming years. Crisis that demand our sacrifice of freedoms and liberties “for the good of all.” Maybe this is just prep work. Get us all used to taking orders, getting government mandated injections – vaccines and various boosters every year. Maybe they’ll come out with a monthly pill or pills as “Such a great convenience!” Who knows what other drugs will be in there. Maybe a little something like Haldol or Thorazine or with similar effects to keep the population docile and compliant. Of course our elite masters won’t be taking it...
This clip is from a comedy, but playing around with vaccines could quickly turn into a tragedy not just from a medical standpoint but from a freedom and liberty standpoint too. I won’t be playing along.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aV2eCTRFJbY
Right-and what is so scary, in the past the US has had some bad Presidents... and survived them and their mistakes.
This isn’t the same thing... handing Joe the WH is a step the country can’t ever recover from.
Lonza(a Swiss company) in Portsmouth, NH is actually manufacturing the Moderna vaccine. They shipped the first
million batch of doses out last week from their plant(I know someone in my immediate family who works there).
No idea
Moderna does not manufacture it.
They contracted with Lonza @ the former Pease Airbase in Portsmouth, NH.
Is that not what the data says?
Show your work so those of us not as smart as an anointed one can follow along.
Here's the CCSE raw data as of 6:27: Global deaths 1,319,098, global confirmed cases 54,506,165.
That shows a survival rate of 97.6% without a vaccine. SMARTY misses by 1.4%, but it's still better that the Earth-shattering 95% Moderna reports.
Perhaps you can find is somewhere in your heart to forgive a little skepticism when the seasonal flu vaccine is at best 30% effective. 95%? Really?
Which is better?
They're very similar, work the same way, do the same thing. WAY too early to draw distinctions between them.
The Moderna vaccine is stable at -20C while the Pfizer vaccine requires transport and storage at -80C.
-80C is much more difficult to arrange, even most medical research centers only have -70C freezers.
So, I suppose you could say there's a greater risk of spoilage of the Pfizer product once distribution becomes widespread.
And of course the media is falling all over itself giving credit to Operation Warp Speed for these exceptionally quick results. </sarcasm>
Flu vaccine should say at best 50%.
the point it is could save the lives of 95% of those that would otherwise die from the illness. It will stop the need for hospitalization and the expense and human toil of hospitalization for 95% of those that would otherwise be hospitalized. It will stop the need for quarantine and lost productivity for those that are positive but do not need hospitalization . There are big benefits to be had from the vaccine not just preventing death. although preventing death would be a big one for those who have lost family members. Right now our system is overflowing with covid patients receiving hospital care and expensive treatments. It would benefit everyone to reduce/eliminate that
"...this only effects those who are elderly and those with underlying conditions so its less than a typical flu. "
Sorry, but that isn't even remotely true.
And even if it was true who needs the elderly anyway? screw em. /s
"There is more a panicked rush than science right now."
Nope. Just eliminating the excessive bureaucratic bullshit. See "atomic bomb" WWII. The US "can" react quickly if the leadership will LEAD and not obstruct.
And yet the Swedes are fairing very well without a vaccine.
It will stop the need for quarantine and lost productivity
It might stop the medical need for quarantines and shutdowns, but not the political need.
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