We Are All Southerners Now

American Thinker ^ | November 14, 2020 | EM Cadwaladr

[Jacob Kell]

When I was growing up in Ohio, the South began at the banks of the Ohio river. Below that muddy line, everyone knew, there lived a different breed of backward and uneducated people with lazy minds and even lazier language skills. You could have contempt for them, a privilege I indulged from time to time. I personally learned this contempt from two main sources.

[BroJoeK]

FLT-bird: "The Tariff of Abominations wasn’t modified slightly.
Tariff rates came way back down."

Not under President Jackson, who needed the tariff revenues to pay-OFF the national debt.

The War of 1812 drove US national debt from $45 million up to $127 million in 1816 (roughly equivalent to today's national debt).
That caused Congress to raise tariff rates and reduced the debt to $90 million under President Monroe, then to $67 million under President John Quincy Adams.
To further reduce the debt the "Tariff of Abominations" passed in 1828 and under President Jackson's first term got the debt to $24 million.
In his second term Jackson reduced tariffs from their peak of ~60% to ~40% and still paid-OFF the national debt in 1835.
From that point tariffs generally fell, to ~20% in 1860.

Here is a graph of US historical tariff rates:

FLT-bird: "The Morrill tariff was specifically mentioned by various Southern newspapers and political leaders as just the latest example of northern business interests using the federal government to pick the pockets of Southerners.
Slavery was not the major reason.
Tariffs, unequal federal expenditures and the steady usurpation of power by the federal government were the major issues."

Slavery was the only reason which could drive Southerners to threaten secession.
Everything else was "politics as usual", including the original Morrill proposal, which would only have restored rates Southerners happily agreed to in 1846.

"Unequal Federal expenditures" was pure propaganda since the reality was an even distribution of spending over time.
So... what Southern propagandists meant by Federal spending "in the North" was spending anywhere North of South Carolina!

As for "the steady usurpation of power by the federal government" that is pure Democrat clap-trap.
Democrats never give a d*mn about too-much Federal power so long as they rule in Washington, DC.
It's only when Republicans take over that Democrats suddenly discover -- OMG -- Constitutional limits are being exceeded, NOW we have to reign in Federal government!!

FLT-bird: "You say the differences were less in the 1600s and 1700s.
I don’t agree.
They agreed to be in what they thought would be a fairly loose confederation in the 1780s and early 1790s for mutual defense primarily.
They were all relatively weak."

Founding Fathers like John Adams (MA), Benjamin Franklin (PA), Thomas Jefferson (VA) and George Washington (VA) were all close friends in 1776 and 1788.
They trusted each other, supported each other, depended on each other and worked together to accomplish their common goals -- independence (1776) and Federal government (1788).
They also shared common religious & ethical values, including their views regarding slavery.
They all considered slavery a moral (if necessary) evil which should be abolished eventually.
They all, including Southerners like Jefferson, took steps in that direction.

The new Federal government which replaced the old Articles of Confederation in 1788 was strikingly greater in its powers & scope.
Its purposes, even before the common defense, were to

1. Form a more perfect Union -- meaning make us one Federal country, not just a loose collection of confederated states.

2. Establish justice -- through Congress, courts and executive to define and enforce just what is "justice".

3. Insure domestic tranquility -- to defeat rebellions, insurrections, "domestic violence" and treason.

After those purposes come the "common defense", "general welfare" and "Blessings of Liberty".

FLT-bird: "Oh, and there was no “common understanding that slavery would be abolished” at the time.
There was nothing to renege on as far as that goes."

Every original Founder expressed his opposition to slavery and hopes that it would eventually be abolished.
Founders like Thomas Jefferson did help abolish slavery in the Northwest Territories, abolished the international imports of new slaves and first proposed a long-term plan of Federally compensated abolition.
Jefferson's abolition plan got nowhere, but it demonstrates clearly that our Founders understood slavery was morally wrong and should be eventually abolished.

FLT-bird: "While there were federalists and anti-federalists in all regions, GENERALLY New England favored stronger central government more and generally Southerners wanted decentralized power more."

Total Democrat lying bunk!
Democrats, then as now, wanted strict Constitutional controls on their political opponents.
Once they themselves were in power -- after the 1800 election -- then they did whatever the h*ll they wanted, the Constitution be d*mned.
Do you think New England Federalists in 1814 threatened secession because Democrats in Washington DC were too weak??
Nonsense!

FLT-bird: "There was no Democrat party until the 1830s and for the rest of the 19th century and up until the early 20th century it was the Democrats who championed state’s rights and decentralized power.
Wilson and FDR flipped that."

Before ~1814 there were two national parties -- Adams' Federalists and Jefferson's Democrats.
After ~1830 there were two national parties -- Clay's Whigs and Jacksonian Democrats.
So here's the key fact to understand: most of Adams' Federalists became Clay's Whigs and most of Jefferson's Democrats became Jacksonian Democrats.
It was the same people, same ideas, just different party names.

After Democrats' Civil War against the United States, they were out of power almost continuously until Wilson's election in 1912.
Out of power Democrats did what Democrats naturally do -- they weaponized the Constitution against their opponents to restrict Republicans as much as possible.
Once in power under Wilson & FDR, Democrats did what Democrats naturally do -- they ran roughshod over the Constitution and anything else in their way.

[BroJoeK]

quoting BJK on FReepers mocking Southerners for being Southern: "I pointed out accurately that I’ve seen nothing of the kind since first reading FR circa 2001.”

suthener: "So since you haven’t seen it it doesn’t exist? Excellent logic."

This entire series of exchanges refers back to your post #20:

"On FR i have read that people from the south have IQs of 20, marry our cousins, and sit around on our porches and play banjos.
And these weren’t jokes.
The ignorance and bias is sometimes unbelievable.
I don’t even own a banjo."

I've seen nothing ever on Free Republic which remotely resembles your words, so I'm calling you out as a liar, FRiend.

Stop doing it.

[DeFault User]

I responded with, "in case you didn't know, there is only one natural lake in Texas, Caddo Lake. The rest of the lakes are all manmade."

Growing up in East Texas, I became aware that our yokels and rubes were stupidly planning for enough water for the next one hundred years. We weren't smart enough to divert it to save minnows.

We also managed our forests so that they had no plentiful underbrush for its natural beauty and wildfire potential. Greedy bastards, we made money off forests and oil. We taxed the oil just enough to provide textbooks for every kid in the state and made a lot of millionaires. It got so bad you couldn't tell the millionaires from the hicks driving old pickups.

[Zionist Conspirator]

The yankee north east is now and always has been loyalist. They did not actually support the revolution and freedom from the king. Benedict Arnold was their man

Okay now; I know everyone is angry and scared (I know I am), but there is no excuse for re-writing history.

New England was not loyalist during the Revolution. Massachusetts was the most anti-loyalist of all the colonies, while the South, while certainly having many patriots, had more loyalists than other sections of the country. And furthermore the UK in 1775 was certainly not socialist.

Ironically, after the Revolution New England became the most conservative section of the country, being accused of pro-monarchist leanings and supporting the Alien and Sedition Acts.

It was during the War of 1812 that New England was rabidly pro-British, with "blue light" Federalists signaling British ships at sea and even threatening secession from the union (which was labeled "treason" by the South, believe it or not).

Let's keep history apolitical.

[RFEngineer]

This thread has degenerated I to the stupidest one ever. So I need to be here, too.

This whole nonsense of Northern this, Southern that, claiming virtue based on geography is really amusing. I’m a Southerner, but if you travel just a little bit, you find that people are just about the same everywhere. There are idiots, malcontents, dumb@sses sprinkled in every geography. There are self-assigned elites and privileged everywhere too.

I have found selfless kindness in NYC same as most other places. I’ve found vicious charlatans everywhere too.

If you think you are morally superior than someone simply because of geography you are an idiot. If you think your latitude positively correlates with IQ, you should move to the equator where you belong.

We have a common history. Our Civil War was all of ours. Our victories and defeats were won and lost as one people, even it you just got here.

The war we must fight now is against those who seek to rule us without regard to our God-given and Constitutionally enshrined freedoms.

They are everywhere in this country.

They know no single region, state, or town.

Oppose them wherever you find them. Help your fellow Americans shake off the yoke when they need help.

If you find yourself in some three-letter federal agency somewhere dont forget that you will need your fellow Americans forgiveness and charity if you take their freedoms when your pensions are not honored (and they wont be) and you are hungry and cold.

Those of us with Constitutional and freedom-loving reflexes in dealing with our fellow man have a common destiny.

So quit your bitching.

[OIFVeteran]

Well said.

[central_va]

I think I saw you spray painting something on Lee’s statue.

[central_va]

If part of the USA wants to split off from FedGov I am all in. So are 100,000,000 others....

[jmacusa]

Amen and well said. It doesn't matter what point on the compass one hails from. There is good and bad in people every where.

I traveled the length and breath of this great nation and found plenty of good in the people I met.

[P.O.E.]

I don’t even own a banjo.

Not even a tub bass and overalls with one strap hanging down? :)

[RFEngineer]

“I think I saw you spray painting something on Lee’s statue.”

You think Lee, at this point in post Civil War history would disagree with me?

[RFEngineer]

“If part of the USA wants to split off from FedGov I am all in. So are 100,000,000 others....”

You’re off by a few orders of magnitude.

All of the USA would be better off reducing the FedGov to something closer to the intended Constitutional minimums.

That is what I am for. That would be a heavy lift now, but I think when the checks stop coming, it will be a little easier. That is the point where Americans will need each other most of all.

You wont have much of a following, I suspect. Just keep it down and do what Gov. Ralph tells you to do.

[rockrr]

Your post #145 was appropriate and appreciated. Never mind central_va - he never misses an opportunity to trash our country and advocate for tearing it down. I’m not real pleased about some aspects of our current state of affairs but we’re still the greatest nation on the planet.

[FLT-bird]

I’m sorry you’re UTTERLY OBSESSED with arguing this subject endlessly to the point that you desperately try to inject it into every thread no matter that the thread was o about it at all, but I’m done with your obsession merry go round.

Feel free to argue with the ether if you wish.

[central_va]

Hopefully one day I will see you on the battle field I hope you are on the right side.

[RFEngineer]

Your neighbors will have you committed long before you reach any delusional battlefield. They do not share your enthusiasm for fighting their fellow Americans.

[central_va]

My brother, a now retired fortune 500 executive, the most establishment staid conservative man I know raised the point to me. He said the center of the country needs to organize it's own congress and discuss separation from the USA. When he says this I know there is something up.

Free Republic posters, God I love 'em, are a very old group of posters. The think it is still 1960 or something. The new name for Free Republic should be Normalcy Bias Republic.

[BroJoeK]

FLT-bird: "I’m sorry you’re UTTERLY OBSESSED with arguing this subject endlessly..."

Nonsense, I'm only here to correct the anti-American lies you Democrat Lost Causers keep posting.

If you wish to shut me up, FRiend, then just stop lying.
How hard could that be?

[BroJoeK]

central_va: "Free Republic posters, God I love 'em, are a very old group of posters.
The think it is still 1960 or something.
The new name for Free Republic should be Normalcy Bias Republic."

Old folks with long memories remember that long-term results of the 1960s included the 1972 Nixon landslide, the 1980 election of Ronald Reagan and in 1994 the first Republican Congress in many decades.
In 2016 opposition to our 1960s "love childs" helped elect Donald Trump and this year produced more votes for Republicans than ever before.
Sadly, along the way our 1960s "love childs" picked up voracious apatites for political corruption, making them more dangerous than ever before.
So we don't yet know how this will play out, but stealing elections is not something even today's young folks are likely to soon forget, or forgive.

Let's hope.

[FLT-bird]

As I said, utter obsession. Can’t help yourself even when the thread is not about that.

Get a life.