We Are All Southerners Now

American Thinker ^ | November 14, 2020 | EM Cadwaladr

[Jacob Kell]

When I was growing up in Ohio, the South began at the banks of the Ohio river. Below that muddy line, everyone knew, there lived a different breed of backward and uneducated people with lazy minds and even lazier language skills. You could have contempt for them, a privilege I indulged from time to time. I personally learned this contempt from two main sources.

[GOPJ]

Insightful... Jews in preWWII Germany an archetype ... Cossacks in Russia...

The ‘other’... groups hated by those in power... because the groups in power are screwing them over...

[jmacusa]

I don’t have any problem understanding the history of what happened between 1861 and 1865. None. You do.

You are either unable or unwilling to accept the fact the South choose a path of violent secession to protect an economic system based on the use of slave labor and was defeated on the field of battle.

The problem is with is with you, not me. I have never called you a liar and you know it. Grow up and accept the verdict of history, you who love to yank my chain because you felt it was easy to do.

It’s even far easy to do it to because yo’re so close minded , defensive and reactionary.

[jmacusa]

Hey, Mr Chain Yanker. The South lost the war it started. So just grow up and shut up will you? You’re crashing boor. All of you Lost Causers need to grow the hell up and get with the 21st. century.

[suthener]

Direct quote from my comment:

“I guess that was Bro Joe K’s reason for calling me a liar. “

I never said you called me a liar, I said 2 people did and named one of them. I have never, ever told you my position on the War Between the States, except in my previous post where I said it’s a useless argument. This is the second time you have agued with yourself about this. You are not only a nut, you have poor reading comprehension skills. You should work on that. I think the problem may be that you fail to read the entire comment. Look back at my comments and see where I made any defense of the WBTS. It’s not there.

[jmacusa]

Whether you remember or not you said you like screwing with me about CW because it’s so easy. I can read between the lines and to me it’s obvious your sympathies aren’t with the North. Stop the bullshit And Bro Joe exposed you as a liar and he was right.

There is nothing wrong with my reading comprehension skills pal.

[suthener]

“Whether you remember or not you said you like screwing with me about CW because it’s so easy. I can read between the lines and to me it’s obvious your sympathies aren’t with the North. Stop the bullshit And Bro Joe exposed you as a liar and he was right.

There is nothing wrong with my reading comprehension skills pal.”

And you can’t admit you’re wrong. Your defense to me proving I didn’t say you called me a liar is...calling me a liar. I feel sorry for you. There is something wrong with you. I’ll give you the last word.

[rockrr]

No one called you a liar.

[jmacusa]

I can certainly admit when I’m wrong, you can’t.
Go to your to me, # 63.

The one where say you , in effect like to yank my chain because you say ‘’it’s so easy’’.

That doesn’t sit well with me.

Then go to Bro Joe K’s post to you, #84. He certainly has issue with you’re being able to tell the truth, as it pertains to CW history, doesn’t it?

[jmacusa]

Hey asshole, have you seen the article here “AG Barr Where Are You? Lot of Freepers want to know where that putz went to.

Got any thoughts ? Boy you sure loved going after me over that fat blob, didn’t you?

Well why don’t you go over onto the “AG Barr article and start mouthing off to all the others Freepers who feel the same way I do

[bert]

GFY...... loser

[jmacusa]

Aww, what’s the matter bertie boy, butt hurt?

And how about Durham giving up his investigations? A double header of loss for you.

Must suck huh? Your hero hero Barr left you at the altar.

So why won’t you go after all the other Freepers who have been ripping Barr a new one?

Because you’re a coward, aren’t you?

[BroJoeK]

FLT-bird: "The northern states abolished it very slowly and made sure to give their residents ample time to sell off their property out of state so they would take no financial loss."

Throughout the period of gradual abolition in Northern States the numbers of slaves fell drastically towards zero, while the numbers of freed-blacks rose to levels much higher than the numbers of previous slaves.
There was a net growth in Northern African-American populations, regardless of any "sold down the river".

FLT-bird: "Not everything is about slavery.
Open your mind."

Everything related to the U.S. Civil War includes slavery as a major component.
Open your mind, FRiend.

[BroJoeK]

FLT-bird: "Tariff of Abominations was done away with."

It was modified slightly under President Jackson, then further reduced or raised according to the political mix before 1860.
The high tariff rates under President Jackson were essential to one of his signature accomplishments: paying OFF the national debt.

In 1842 Whigs raised tariff rates and in 1846 Democrats reduced rates under the Walker Tariffs.
In 1856 Democrats again reduced rates and in 1860 Republicans proposed returning rates to their 1846 levels --Morrill Tariff.
The proposed Morrill Tariff was defeated by Democrats in 1860 and could have been defeated or negotiated in 1861 absent Southern secessions.
Morrill was not mentioned in any of the early "Reasons for Secession" documents because it was not their major reason, slavery was.

FLT-bird: "Over the next generation other Southern states came to agree with South Carolina’s position about how economically devastating to their economy high tariffs were."

Democrats in states with any manufacturing assets were just as eager as Northerners to "Put Americans First" with protective tariffs.
Such States included Kentucky, Tennessee and Virginia.

Even in the Deep South, no state threatened secession over the Morrill Tariff, or listed it as their reason for secession.

FLT-bird: "The settlement in Jamestown was entirely different from that in Plymouth.
Different people and different purpose.
The differences between the two regions started there in the 1620s.
Slavery was not one of those difference."

Sure, understood, but those differences were vastly less important in 1776 and 1788 than our similarities & common interests.
That's how we got a United States.
And similarities then included a common understanding that slavery was a necessary evil which should be eventually abolished.
Steps in that direction continued until Southerners began reneging on the deal, circa 1830s.

FLT-bird: "In 1776 there were large differences between New England and the Southern colonies.
Even then the Southern colonies had an export based economy.
New England had a fishing and shipping based economy."

Did you already forget that the reason for the 1814 Hartford Convention, threatening secession, was the embargo imposed by Democrats in Washington D.C. against New England trade with England.
Now you may wish to claim such trade was insignificant, but clearly to New Englanders, it was a matter of life & death.
So every region had its products & exports.

FLT-bird: "New England wanted more centralized power. The South did not."

Nonsense, in 1788 there were Federalists and anti-Federalists in all regions, North & South.
After ratification many Southerners gravitated with other formerly anti-Federalists to Jefferson's party, then called Democratic-republicans.
But there were still Federalists throughout the South until Federalists, in effect, committed political suicide at the 1814 Hartford Convention, by threatening secession.

So Jefferson's Democrats claimed to be "strict constructionist" and charged Adams' Federalists with being "monarchists", but it was all just bunk -- no presidents were more aristocratic than the Virginians, and when Democrats came to power they did whatever the h*ll they wanted, the Constitution be d*mnd.

Then as today, Democrats weaponized the Constitution against their opponents, while ignoring it once themselves in power.

[FLT-bird]

False. Blacks declined as a percentage of the population in several Northern states. The “Black Codes” they passed and the refusal of Whites to work alongside Blacks in several instances made it all but impossible for Blacks to earn a living - thus driving them out as was always intended.

No, not everything about the War for Southern Independence was about slavery. The most important considerations for both sides were not about slavery.

Oh, and this thread was not about that time period. So why are you trying to hijack the thread?

[BroJoeK]

suthener: "I guess that was Bro Joe K’s reason for calling me a liar."

No, like other Lost Causers here you falsely claimed that some FReepers mock Southerners for being Southern.
I pointed out accurately that I've seen nothing of the kind since first reading FR circa 2001.
You claimed to have started years before that, so we are lead to believe you wish to tar all FReepers today with words allegedly posted over 20 years ago?!

So this is not about Southerners being Southern, but is about the lies some of you tell about your Lost Cause.

[FLT-bird]

The Tariff of Abominations wasn’t modified slightly. Tariff rates came way back down.

The Morrill tariff was specifically mentioned by various Southern newspapers and political leaders as just the latest example of northern business interests using the federal government to pick the pockets of Southerners. Slavery was not the major reason. Tariffs, unequal federal expenditures and the steady usurpation of power by the federal government were the major issues.

You say the differences were less in the 1600s and 1700s. I don’t agree. They agreed to be in what they thought would be a fairly loose confederation in the 1780s and early 1790s for mutual defense primarily. They were all relatively weak.

Oh, and there was no “common understanding that slavery would be abolished” at the time. There was nothing to renege on as far as that goes.

While there were federalists and anti-federalists in all regions, GENERALLY New England favored stronger central government more and generally Southerners wanted decentralized power more.

There was no Democrat party until the 1830s and for the rest of the 19th century and up until the early 20th century it was the Democrats who championed state’s rights and decentralized power. Wilson and FDR flipped that.

[suthener]

‘I pointed out accurately that I’ve seen nothing of the kind since first reading FR circa 2001.”

So since you haven’t seen it it doesn’t exist? Excellent logic.

“You claimed to have started years before that, so we are lead to believe you wish to tar all FReepers today with words allegedly posted over 20 years ago?!”

I did not do that at all. I was pointing out that there are people on FR that say nutty things. You and jmausa are proving my point.

“like other Lost Causers here”

Neither you nor jmausa know what my position is on The War Between the States because I have never commented on it. Both of you make assumptions and try to attack me, which is actually pretty nutty. I do not have, nor have I ever had, any desire to discuss that issue.

Both of you have some serious issues.

As I did with jmausa I will give you the last word.

[suthener]

“No one called you a liar.”

I missed your comment the other day. Let’s take a look at some quotes.

“If you ever wish to become a good person, the first thing you need to do is stop lying”

“And Bro Joe exposed you as a liar and he was right.”

These are comments from 2 different people. Why would say no one called me a liar? Seriously, both of these quotes were before your comment.

[jmacusa]

I don't need to attack you. You're capable of making a fool all by yourself

You're not too cleaver at hiding the obvious.

You certainly don't seem to favor the Union.

And thank you for the free parking in your head. Apparently I must figure prominently in your thinking. And again, why don't you attack other pro-Union Freepers here? Are you afraid to? Are you a coward or is it only me you have issues with? I have a number of malcontents here and apparently you don't like the ''cut of my jib''. Doesn't bother me though. There's worse things in the world than being talked about. Like not being talked about. But keep talking dude. You're the preeminent mediocrity here.

[BroJoeK]

FLT-bird: "False. Blacks declined as a percentage of the population in several Northern states."

Only Rhode Island & New Hampshire saw actual declines in the numbers of total African Americans -- from a combined total of 5,229 in the 1790 census (of which 1,115 were slaves) to 4,446 in the 1860 census, no slaves.
Throughout the Northeast & Mid-Atlantic states, total numbers of African Americans increased from 67,000 in 1790 (including 40,000 slaves) to 156,000 in 1860 (including 64 slaves).

During that same period the numbers of Southern slaves grew from 654,000 to 3,950,000 while Southern freed-blacks grew from 32,000 to 251,000.

I've seen no numbers for how many Northern slaves were "sold down the river".

FLT-bird: "The “Black Codes” they passed and the refusal of Whites to work alongside Blacks in several instances made it all but impossible for Blacks to earn a living - thus driving them out as was always intended."

Except that most freed-blacks did earn a living and were not driven out by anything except possibly the cold weather.
And Northern states with the allegedly strongest Black Codes -- i.e., Illinois -- also showed the largest percentage increases in their freed-black populations.
In Illinois' case, freed-blacks grew from 457 in the 1820 census to 7,628 in 1860.
So the actual results do not support your blanket condemnations of Northerners.

FLT-bird: "No, not everything about the War for Southern Independence was about slavery.
The most important considerations for both sides were not about slavery."

Complete rubbish.

FLT-bird: "Oh, and this thread was not about that time period.
So why are you trying to hijack the thread?"

To my knowledge, no Unionist-Republican has ever "hijacked" a Civil war related thread.
We have only ever responded to Democrat Lost Cause lies & nonsense.

Do you wish to shut us up forever?
It's easy -- all you have to do is stop posting Democrat lies and hatred for the United States of America.