Posted on 09/11/2020 1:50:16 AM PDT by xzins
A Los Angeles Superior Court judge issued an order banning Pastor John MacArthur and Grace Community Church from conducting, participating in or attending any indoor worship services.
It is a stunning blow to religious liberty.
(Excerpt) Read more at toddstarnes.com ...
It’s happened before.
Google Jacksonboro, Ga.
Almost identical scenario.
“I would like to tell John to pray for a miracle but he is a cessationist”
What a moronic comment, but typical from a Charismatic who think they have the innate authority to do what only a small group of men were given the power to do in the 1st century.
So...yeah we pray. Do you people know the Word of God?? lol
It would not overly offend me to see such judges arrested, tried and executed as enemy of the Constitution.
Well said boatbums.
John MacArthur is a faithful, godly, Bible believing man who is standing against a rogue government. He is a senior. He has plenty of money and I doubt there is any money to be made from this. Much of the Christian Church believes that tongues etc through men have ceased. Whether we are correct or not does not mean that we don’t believe God still works miracles! Just not through men! So why slam the guy he’s probably the most prominent preacher (along with his board of elders) taking a stand here. Pray for him don’t put him down.
Yes, I believe it also. I got into a bit of an argument with a guy on here a while back when I made a similar comment. But, I believe God does judge people daily. He will do remedial judgments on nations, states, people, you name it. I firmly believe that what is happening in the west is a direct response from the Lord. He is telling people that He will not put up with our direct challenge to His authority. Anyone that thinks otherwise does so at his own peril. God will not be mocked. God has the last say and those that go against that will pay. If this nation would get on its knees and ask forgiveness, then Covit would go away, the west would get its needed rain not continued dry hot air blowing down the mountain sides. Yes sir, I am with you. God will not be mocked. He will not stand for man kind’s rebellion against Him. He will act. He is acting. We are reaping the doom of it.
Peaceful protesting will not work. LOOK AROUND YOU, this Judge is serving evil. If you cannot discern what is evil and what is good in September 2020, the problem is within you. Freedom and Liberty are not gifts from government. Hold the service, and be prepared to defend yourselves to the death. It is either that or be a false Christian.
All of the above is IMO of course.
The Judge should be charged with Treason!
Amen. We must stand together or we’ll hang separately.
They don’t care about any principle at all. If you “peaceful protest”, then that exception will not apply for you.
Just as Jesus was sarcastic/ironic in His discussion of Jezebelic teachings for the Church Age — how “she teaches “the so-called ‘deep things of Satan’” — my Socratic questions were meant to jar you out of some of your misconceptions regarding pentecostals.
There is no Scripture you or MacArthur can site that states the “sign” gifts were for the 1st Century Church only.
Because that would be ridiculous, for it would render null and void what was prophesied by the Prophet Joel and quoted by Peter.
Parsing through your arguments, just because you personally have no evidence, nor have never seen the gift of tongues in your life, does not make it a “dead Gift of the Holy Spirit”, especially in light of all of the bible references to it for the Church Age.
BTW, the gift of tongues is a sign for UNBELIEVERS and I have personally and miraculously seen it at work.
You are misquoting and misunderstanding a sticking point for Pentecostals and Charismatics by saying that the gift of tongues is the way in which you know you have received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit.
To demonstrate the fallacy there on the part of the Four Square Church, which is the only church whom at one time that I know of — promulgated that faulty teaching.
As a way of demonstration, I actually know someone, a messianic Jew, who was so weirded out by the gift of tongues, that when they prayed for the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, they specifically asked the Lord to NOT give them this gift, and reported that suddenly the room was filled as with a mighty, hot wind instead — as the Spirit fell amidst their holy sobs of joy.
(Keep in mind that all Christians must check their supernatural experiences at the door of Scripture; and this messianic Jew certainly knew that the Spirit also came on the day of Pentecost as a mighty rushing wind to the Disciples and Mary and others in the upper room that day...)
What you are quoting about tongues as the only sign of being filled with the Spirit is a mis-teaching or bad teaching out of Hayford’s FourSquare church, and I do not know if it has been corrected now, but they used to promote the false idea that one must manifest the gift of tongues to prove they are baptised with the Holy Spirit.
Again, I don’t know if this error in teaching about proving your status by speaking in tongues has been corrected or not, but there is no justification for it in the Word and it is too bad that this somehow got started. Too bad for the Kingdom, of course, and those promulgating this false teaching will surely be held to their higher account as such with the Lord.
As these same Foursquare ministers will be held to account for “going beyond the what is written” in the Word with outrageous and out of control screaming, shouting, being slayed in the spirit (which is not in the Word) and writhing and wiggling like reptiles on the ground as they allow such practices with their agreement with much of the Apostolic Prophetic/Vineyard movements.
None of these types of extra Biblical charismatic experiences or demonstrations are the work of the Holy Spirit, as John MacArthur rightly has pointed out,
And for discerning charismatics like myself, one cannot help but wonder if it is not demons themselves manifesting and mocking the people practicing such outrage against the self control required by a Holy God in worship.
And by demonic mocking, I mean that the devil will mock these people by getting them to demean and debase themselves in this false worship, grovelling on the ground, grunting, wiggling, being slain in the spirit (which God would never do because He will never overcome our sense of free will) etc.
It’s disgusting that these charismatic practices are not held to the idea that they have “gone beyond what is written” in their “worship” as described. (But Hayford and his pals didn’t reign in that convicted pedophile Todd Bentley of the Apostolic Prophetic movement either.)
None of the above excesses, apostasies or actual “Kundalini” demonic possession in the Pentecostal or Charismatic movements, however, justifies John MacArthur’s wholesale indictment of the entire pentecostal position, by basically teaching a double-minded position that modern Christians cannot act in the same miracle power of the Holy Spirit as did the Disciples, yet the Holy Spirit is still at work in a much lesser degree than the 1st Century Church?
This makes no sense whatsoever.
Just as Jesus was sarcastic/ironic in His discussion of Jezebelic teachings for the Church Age — how “she teaches “the so-called ‘deep things of Satan’” — my Socratic questions were meant to jar you out of some of your misconceptions regarding pentecostals.
There is no Scripture you or MacArthur can site that states the “sign” gifts were for the 1st Century Church only.
Because that would be ridiculous, for it would render null and void what was prophesied by the Prophet Joel and quoted by Peter.
Parsing through your arguments, just because you personally have no evidence, nor have never seen the gift of tongues in your life, does not make it a “dead Gift of the Holy Spirit”, especially in light of all of the bible references to it for the Church Age.
BTW, the gift of tongues is a sign for UNBELIEVERS and I have personally and miraculously seen it at work.
You are misquoting and misunderstanding a sticking point for Pentecostals and Charismatics by saying that the gift of tongues is the way in which you know you have received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit.
To demonstrate the fallacy there on the part of the Four Square Church, which is the only church whom at one time that I know of — promulgated that faulty teaching.
As a way of demonstration, I actually know someone, a messianic Jew, who was so weirded out by the gift of tongues, that when they prayed for the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, they specifically asked the Lord to NOT give them this gift, and reported that suddenly the room was filled as with a mighty, hot wind instead — as the Spirit fell amidst their holy sobs of joy.
(Keep in mind that all Christians must check their supernatural experiences at the door of Scripture; and this messianic Jew certainly knew that the Spirit also came on the day of Pentecost as a mighty rushing wind to the Disciples and Mary and others in the upper room that day...)
What you are quoting about tongues as the only sign of being filled with the Spirit is a mis-teaching or bad teaching out of Hayford’s FourSquare church, and I do not know if it has been corrected now, but they used to promote the false idea that one must manifest the gift of tongues to prove they are baptised with the Holy Spirit.
Again, I don’t know if this error in teaching about proving your status by speaking in tongues has been corrected or not, but there is no justification for it in the Word and it is too bad that this somehow got started. Too bad for the Kingdom, of course, and those promulgating this false teaching will surely be held to their higher account as such with the Lord.
As these same Foursquare ministers will be held to account for “going beyond the what is written” in the Word with outrageous and out of control screaming, shouting, being slayed in the spirit (which is not in the Word) and writhing and wiggling like reptiles on the ground as they allow such practices with their agreement with much of the Apostolic Prophetic/Vineyard movements.
None of these types of extra Biblical charismatic experiences or demonstrations are the work of the Holy Spirit, as John MacArthur rightly has pointed out,
And for discerning charismatics like myself, one cannot help but wonder if it is not demons themselves manifesting and mocking the people practicing such outrage against the self control required by a Holy God in worship.
And by demonic mocking, I mean that the devil will mock these people by getting them to demean and debase themselves in this false worship, grovelling on the ground, grunting, wiggling, being slain in the spirit (which God would never do because He will never overcome our sense of free will) etc.
It’s disgusting that these charismatic practices are not held to the idea that they have “gone beyond what is written” in their “worship” as described. (But Hayford and his pals didn’t reign in that convicted pedophile Todd Bentley of the Apostolic Prophetic movement either.)
None of the above excesses, apostasies or actual “Kundalini” demonic possession in the Pentecostal or Charismatic movements, however, justifies John MacArthur’s wholesale indictment of the entire pentecostal position, by basically teaching a double-minded position that modern Christians cannot act in the same miracle power of the Holy Spirit as did the Disciples, yet the Holy Spirit is still at work in a much lesser degree than the 1st Century Church?
This makes no sense whatsoever.
John MacArthur has been the real deal for decades.
If take away your 2nd Amendment rights, then the 1st Amendment rights will be next.
Yes!
After a long work week, that ended last night, I finally took the time to listen to the link.
I find it hypocritical that Mr MacArthur says that we need look at the whole of scripture, when he doesn’t. He says we need to read all of 1 Peter 3:21; but when he quotes it (whatever version it was) he goes into his interpretation. But when he refers to Acts 2:38 and 22:16, he only mentions portions of them (of Acts 2:38, he cleverly leaves out the heart of it: “..every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ...”. Why, because he doesn’t teach water baptism in the NAME that has the power to save, for the remission of sins.)
He doesn’t like ‘simplistic’? Simply read Acts 22:16:
“And now why tarriest thou, arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.” (KJV)
Zuriel’s interpretation (as if one is needed?): “Ok Paul, you have no doubt seen and heard of the conversion of this way. Now you’ve met the Lord Jesus, and have been greatly rebuked. You obeyed his voice to come here in your very humbled condition. Why delay any further, get up, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.”
If you look at the water baptism accounts in Acts, you will notice the urgency in which it took place. No waiting a day or more to get prepared, as though it’s a party. The Lord is ready to remit sins 24/7/365. When he sends his preachers, he honors their word (John 20:21).
Even the conversion account in Act 16:31-34 (which is commonly held to only verse 31), shows the urgency:
Paul and Silas told the jailer that he had to believe, and preached the Word to the man and to every one of his house. Then they left the house and went somewhere where there was ample water, and the household was baptized.
I have put together a 15 page study on remission of sins. Among other things, it deals with many of the dodges of water baptism that have been commonly used by people in a position of authority, like John MacArthur.
Like I already stated, this thread shouldn't be about the "Charismatic" movement nor the sign gifts, themselves, but rather the offense against ALL Christians' rights to worship without governmental interference that is being perpetrated within America today. As believers we should be committed to the fight knowing that the battle is the Lord's.
If you want to discuss the "gifts" why not open your own thread and conduct it there? I'll gladly participate.
For every thinking Christian the idea that a Covid vaccine may be used as a precursor to, or an embodiment of, the Mark of the Beast (which the Bible assures us will happen) every thinking Christian I know wonders aloud whether or not we will be able to participate in the market place or be able to “buy or sell” unless we are vaccinated.
... all of which bring to mind MacArthur's very serious apostasies regarding how he believes a Christian
“can repent after taking the Mark of the Beast”...
Will MacArthur then, because he has guilt-inflicted his flock and many outside of his flock into believing that their faith rests upon rebelling against Newsome’s admittedly insane restrictions on attending church... will MacArthur then say
“Hey, it's all okay... just get the COVID vaccine which may or may not be the Mark of the Beast because you can repent of it later... but you really HAVE TO GO TO CHURCH so therefore you really HAVE TO BE VACCINATED in order to go to church...!”
My beef with MacArthur is that he is right to criticize Pentecostals on their anti biblical excesses, but wrong when he tries to suppress the workings of the Holy Spirit for modern day Christians by saying the Holy Spirit is different for us now than it was for the early Church.
Isn't that just what Satan wants? The Church to be knee-capped by not having the outpouring of the Spirit as Joel and the Disciples said we would?
MacArthur's own apostasy about being able to “repent after you take the Mark of the Beast” may be even more dangerous thinking, though, considering what the Word actually says that John MacArthur is in abject apostasy for his statements:
“He was granted power to give breath to the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak and cause as many as would not worship the image of the beast to be killed.
And he causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads, and that no one may buy or sell except one who has the mark or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man: His number is 666.” (Revelation 13:15-18)
Now here is the real scary part. God Himself says in the Book of Revelation that none of His people are to receive this mark of the beast. If they do, they will end up coming under His wrath that will be released upon the earth during the latter part of the Tribulation.
God then pronounces what is the most dire warning imaginable if any of His people receive this mark. He flat out says that in addition to suffering His wrath that will be poured out during these last days – that they will also end up in the Lake of Fire and Brimstone where the Antichrist, the False Prophet, and Satan will eventually end up.
“Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation.
And he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”
Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.” (Revelation 14:9-11)
This came from this website, where MacArthur's strange pre-Trib rapture teaching also positions his people for Hell, in case (and I believe that) he is wrong on the rapture:
https://www.bible-knowledge.com/mark-of-the-beast/
Here is some footage on CORONA virus being used as "a pandemic tabletop exercise" by John Hopkins back in October 2019. Though some have said that this enactment exercise was being played out with actors as early as 2018, I just don't remember where I saw the footage. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhrBDP50pEU
We could find doctrinal stands to dispute over —any— Pastor anywhere, that choose to take stand against the State.
So why bring that up here.
It wastes everyone’s time.
John MacArthur is the ‘canary in the coal mine” and all you can do is derail the thread into a doctrinal discussion.
Why don’t you start a “I don’t agree with John MacArthur’s stand on...” and have at it.
I think you’re part of the problem, when it comes to Religious Freedom in the United States.
The Big Picture
Perhaps him getting shut down is his reaping what he has sown?
BTW, do you think the COVID vaccine could be related to the Mark of the Beast?
Or do you preach the same as John MacArthur, that it doesn’t really matter because - Rapture!
Or because you can repent if you take the Mark of the Beast, as MacArthur says?
https://watch.pairsite.com/macarthur-1-mark-of-beast.html
Now, be a good Berean and go “study to show yourself approved”.
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