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To: Impy; BillyBoy; LS; NFHale; GOPsterinMA; campaignPete R-CT; AuH2ORepublican; Clemenza; SunkenCiv; ..

I don’t think Stevenon was an evil person. I think he exercised some poor judgment in certain instances. I think he was soft and somewhat ignorant on the Communist infiltration in his capacity as Governor and prior government service. He was a character witness for Alger Hiss (though used against him in 1952, it also meant he didn’t really know him well at all).

Had he been President from 1953-61 given his tenure as Governor, I think there would’ve been a level of comfortability with pro-Soviets (not because he was pro-Soviet, but he would’ve, again, underestimated what was going on and not taken the tough stances required. Unfortunately, Ike didn’t, either).

In some ways, I’m not sure he’d have differed marginally from Ike in office. Of course, had he acted as tough as he did as UN Ambassador in the famous showdown with the Soviet Representative, “Don’t wait for the translation !”, perhaps he’d have been a bit better.

He’d not have wrecked the GOP as Ike did, especially in 1958. No Earl Warren as Chief Justice. Bill Knowland as Senate Majority Leader. LBJ staying Minority Leader. The good news. The bad news is that liberal Gov. Nelson Rockefeller would’ve probably been the 1960 nominee and winner. He’d have made Richard Nixon (still in the Senate at that point) Secretary of State, though. The Dems would’ve torn themselves apart in 1960 with a battle royale between the segregationist forces represented by a Vice-President John Sparkman and whomever the anti-seg Northern Dems would’ve supported (quite probably Humphrey). JFK might’ve gotten lost in the shuffle, but I think he would’ve been more loyal to Sparkman. Perhaps Sparkman, had he won the ‘60 nomination, would’ve picked Sen. JFK for balance (since he wasn’t exactly pro-civil rights).

Rockefeller would’ve probably received half or even more than half of the Black vote in ‘60. Perhaps he’d have been the target of an assassin before his term expired and would’ve been succeeded by his Vice-President, Barry Goldwater, who would’ve won in a landslide in 1964.


88 posted on 08/10/2020 12:02:52 AM PDT by fieldmarshaldj (Dear Mr. Kotter, #Epsteindidntkillhimself - Signed, Epstein's Mother)
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To: fieldmarshaldj

Who is our failed nominee in ‘56 in this scenario?


89 posted on 08/10/2020 12:27:29 AM PDT by Impy (Thug Lives Splatter)
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To: fieldmarshaldj; Impy; BillyBoy; LS; NFHale; GOPsterinMA; campaignPete R-CT; AuH2ORepublican; ...

DJ, you never fail to amaze with your historical knowledge of politics and politicians.

Bravo, brother...


92 posted on 08/10/2020 4:59:20 AM PDT by NFHale (The Second Amendment - By Any Means Necessary.)
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To: fieldmarshaldj
I knew someone who got clean in Stevenon.
Sorry, I couldn't resist.
Adlai would have been a horrible President. JFK spent some of his time in the Senate pissing and moaning about the increasing but still low-level US involvement in "Lay-OS" and the rest of "French Indo-China" after Dien Bien Phu, yet as candidate he complained about bomber gaps and missile gaps and spoke about the future of "brushfire wars". It's not unlikely that, having missed the VP nomination with Stevenson -- JFK joked that, had he won the VP nom, his political career would have been over -- he'd have fallen in line with escalation, but would likely never have been President.
Instead, the Soviet-driven "anti-war" movement and other bowel activity fell on LBJ, who claimed Goldwater would dig us in deeper, but after it was clear that waving the bloody shirt was working and 1964 was going to be a Republican disaster, he pushed the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution through nearly three months before the election, then won in a landslide.
OTOH, Stevenson was glib. During an outdoor stump speech, a big gust of wind tore away a bunch of his pages (no teleprompters then) and without missing a beat, he got a laugh with, "that's a break for you".

96 posted on 08/10/2020 7:58:59 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (Imagine an imaginary menagerie manager imagining managing an imaginary menagerie.)
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To: fieldmarshaldj; AuH2ORepublican; NFHale; GOPsterinMA; BillyBoy; campaignPete R-CT; LS

“Bill Knowland as Senate Majority Leader.”

Presumably after 1954 because if Ike wasn’t winning we likely would not be gaining that narrow congressional majority. The House is another matter, as you mentioned long ago with urban seats no longer going GOP and with southern seats not in play yet, we had a problem. GOP House if elected in ‘54 wouldn’t have survived a Stevenson reelection. Rocky would have been awful for the GOP in the south.

Republicans would have been apoplectic if Ike had lost. I think that means a conservative wins the nomination in 1956.

I found this cool book “The Republican Right Since 1945” (1983) By David W. Reinhard (Former Reagan undersec I believe). I started reading the google books preview but I’ll probably buy the ebook. 36 bucks on google books, pricey for such and old book.

https://books.google.com/books?id=SscfBgAAQBAJ&dq=dewey+warren+halleck+1948&q=green#v=snippet&q=green&f=false

Lots of details about the 80th Congress and the ‘48 election (what a boner!) and Robert A. Taft I read so far (Taft had attacks from his right as well as his left in his job as GOP Senate Boss). If McArthur had only taken the good advice he got and came home to campaign in the WI primary I think he could have taken the nomination and the election, with the (unmentioned in the book) farm recession that helped Truman (unlike what would happen today where the incumbent would be hurt) being the only stumbling block to the White House. Even Dewey with his horrible campaign would have won without that recession.


107 posted on 08/11/2020 10:20:19 PM PDT by Impy (Thug Lives Splatter)
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