Posted on 03/30/2020 10:53:40 PM PDT by aquila48
For the past two weeks now, we’ve been talking about hydroxychloroquine as the wonder drug in the fight against the deadly coronavirus. Two anti-malaria drugs hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine are shown to be effective in treating COVID-19 patients after controlled clinical study conducted by doctors in France shows that a combo of Hydroxychloroquine and Azithromycin (Z-Pak) cures 100% of coronavirus patients within 6 days of treatment.
However, according to doctors treating coronovirus patients in Italy, Tolicizumab, a drug used to treat moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis, has been shown to be more effective than hydroxychloroquine. Tolicizumab is so effective that the FDA gives green lights to Phase III Tocilizumab Trial for COVID-19 pneumonia. In a related report, Italian doctors said that a 101-year-old Italian man who survived the 1918 Spanish flu pandemic and World War II, recovered from COVID-19.
In another report, scientists claim Tocilizumab has been shown to help cure 95 percent of critically ill coronavirus patients in China. Tocilizumab, which is marketed as Actemra, is taken by patients with rheumatoid arthritis to reduce inflammation. Chinese doctors gave it to 20 patients during the peak of of coronavirus epidemic. Nineteen of the patients were discharged within 14 days despite being critically ill. Actemra has now been approved for use in China and for trials in the US
In response to a question from another doctor on hydroxychloroquine, Dr. Giusppe Galati, an Italian doctor, said in a tweet: “Dear @DrLuizSilva1 despite the large noise on social media. Here in Flag of Italy they are trying several combinations of antiviral included the combination HCQ + azithro. Infectivologist refer little benefit. The unique drug which is causing impressive improvement is #Tolicizumab.”
Tocilizumab, also known as atlizumab, is an immunosuppressive drug, mainly for the treatment of rheumatoid arthritis (RA) and systemic juvenile idiopathic arthritis, a severe form of arthritis in children. It is a humanized monoclonal antibody against the interleukin-6 receptor (IL-6R).
The biological is not widely available the hydroxychloroquine we can get. I have yet to see a. convincing clinical trial that shows 100% efficacy of hydroxychloroquine or anywhere near that. The personal blog of one New York physician does not count
[[ I have yet to see a. convincing clinical trial that shows 100% efficacy of hydroxychloroquine or anywhere near that.]]
People are dying- we can’t wait months for clinical trials when we know from studies this drug is working, safe, and effective-
during normal times, yes, wait for clinical trials to run their course- during crisis- emergencies- where time is of the essence, and people are dropping dead with no hope- get the safe and demonstrably effective drugs to the people who are in the process of dying- make it readily available to everyone everywhere who is facing certain death without it-
There are enough small studies done now to show the drug is working- it’s the dying patient’s only real hope- as they lie their drowning in their own fluids- panicking from air starvation every minute or so- it is unconscionable to withhold this drug any further in such an emergency situation-
It’s like the gov holding a glass of water telling the man dying from thirst “Nope- you can’t have any- we haven’t tested it yet, and despite folks drinking this same water for decades now, and no ill effects, I can’t let you have a sip-”
What good does it do to have a glass of water, and tell the patient “ Sorry- you can’t have any- Go and be well”?
Yeah. Nice broad description.
You are missing the point. I was asking where you got the 100% efficacy for hydroxychloroquine. the answer is you did t there is no study that exists that shows 100% efficacy. I did not say it shouldn’t be used.
The one in New York with the orthodox Jewish doctor is the one I am thinking of and that is the one that is not really a real trial. He did not test patients, just treated them like they had it.
PFL
I was reading that since hydroxychloroquine taken with zinc prevent help to prevent the virus from replicating, it's not as useful when the virus has progressed. It needs to be given early. I assume that Tocilizumab helps to reduce the autoimmune effects later on in the progression of the virus.
I don’t think it was him- I am looking for the article now- it was on FR a couple of days ago- it was a pretty large study- I don’t think it was a clinical trial- though it mighta been- i didn’t pay close enough attention- but i think it was just a study done on those 600+ coronavirus patients-
[[the answer is you did t there is no study that exists that shows 100% efficacy.]]
The claim i n the study was that it was 100% effective- no deaths when given the drugs- in all those patients- As i told the other fella I’m looking for the article now- it wasn’t a clinical trial i don’t beleive-
havign trouble finding it- shoudla bookmarked it-
Here’s one where 36 who had the virus were tested after being given the drugs and 100% showed no signs of covid after 6 days- i don’t thin it was a clinical trial- just a a study- and they don’t say how sick the patients were or if they had preexistign conditions or not-
This past week, a note of optimism penetrated the accumulating bad news. Doctors testing the drug hydroxychloroquine—brand name Plaquenil—on patients with Covid-19 have seen remarkable results. Half the patients tested negative after only three days on the medication, and by day six, that number had increased to 70 percent. Even better, 100 percent of patients given both hydroxychloroquine and the antibiotic azithromycin (commonly known as Zithromax, or the Z-pak) tested negative after six days.
https://www.city-journal.org/covid-19-hydroxychloroquine
ok i found it- it was the doc in NY- it was a study- not a clinical trial- and all the folks had covid accordign to the aeticle
“Dr. Vladimir Zelenko has now treated 699 coronavirus patients with 100% success using Hydroxychloroquine Sulfate, Zinc and Z-Pak”
https://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3829531/posts
ok i found it- it was the doc in NY- it was a study- not a clinical trial- and all the folks had covid accordign to the aeticle
“Dr. Vladimir Zelenko has now treated 699 coronavirus patients with 100% success using Hydroxychloroquine Sulfate, Zinc and Z-Pak”
https://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3829531/posts
Again, not a clinical trial- but as i said studies are showing 100% effective or over 90% effective- one small clinical trial i France found 100% effective-
We also will have NY’s results next week i believe- and likely other results from all over the world- We’ll see howe they fare out-
I did run across one that claimed there was no effectiveness on a forbes site- but that one runs counter to all I’ve read on it since-
“The cost for Actemra intravenous solution (20 mg/mL) is around $491 for a supply of 4 milliliters, depending on the pharmacy you visit. Prices are for cash paying customers only and are not valid with insurance plans.”
I see what you are saying but the 1918 flu was still killing and still in the papers in 1919 and after though it dropped off after that. "1918 Flu" is just a name, better perhaps than Spanish Flu, but name it after the first year it appears. Just like COVID-19 not COVID-2020. Good thinking anyway!
Freegards deweyfrank!
I liked the doctors video but it oversimplified the situation. There are several antiviral and anti-inflammatory effects to the HCQ regimen. The zinc ionophore idea comes from cancer research.
Given the urgency of the situation, I developed the following treatment protocol in the pre-hospital setting and have seen only positive results:
1. Any patient with shortness of breath regardless of age is treated.
2. Any patient in the high-risk category even with just mild symptoms is treated.
3. Young, healthy and low risk patients even with symptoms are not treated (unless their circumstances change and they fall into category 1 or 2).
My out-patient treatment regimen is as follows:
1. Hydroxychloroquine 200mg twice a day for 5 days
2. Azithromycin 500mg once a day for 5 days
3. Zinc sulfate 220mg once a day for 5 days
In this case, I think the Aztecs. :)
The doc in new york is not a study. It’s a blog. He is treating anyone with the sniffles.
Thanks Mom MD, the predictable 150 comments is getting tiring.
There are two ways to get bedside doctors to use a new medicine and being desperate is not one of them. Please docs correct me.
1) If somebody real is really getting real cures out there, then they will all network with each other and word gets out. But many times it does not play out. Good try, but no cigar. After a while at the bedside they yearn for some hard evidence. But if something is doing the work, it is preposterous to think that our system could stop them from treating and sharing results.
2) “But the science!” you say. Sure buddy, whatever you say. There of course needs to be a plausible scientific hypothesis there, right, but what that does is get it into the lab and into the trials to be tested. When the trials play out and show that it works and how it works, that is the normal way to start using a therapy. You know that fails a lot of the time. For that matter over and over there are things that go great in the trials and then fail at the bedside! The bench guys have all these great ideas, but they share in the devastating disappointment of death and failure.
I was in college when they rushed out a vaccine in 1977. It was the swine flu. People were dying. There is spot on my butt that still remembers the innoculation. But that shot killed children. Search Guillain-Barré syndrome to read more.
Consider this if:
It works in theory but not in the dish.
It works in the dish but not in the animals.
It works in animals but not in people.
It works on some few but fails in the trial.
It succeeds in the trials but fails in the clinics ( so many variables.)
It works in the clinics and then some unforseen side effect appears out of nowhere and you got people with cancer suing you. Only the lawyers are happy.
People die. The docs and labs try to do something, and I thank God for them.
Ultimately it is God Who decides.
I am an unrepentant know-it-all so I am very mindful that I have no business correcting anybody especially you 9Year. You are a great FReeper here and your contribution is valued by many if we never say it.
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