Posted on 12/09/2019 5:14:52 AM PST by marktwain
Murders/Suicide at Pearl Harbor were by Active Duty Armed Guard
On 4 December 2019,at about 2:30 p.m. in Hawaii, at the Pearl Harbor shipyard, an armed sailor guarding the nuclear attack submarine the Columbia, shot and killed two shipyard workers and wounded a third. The armed guard then killed himself with his government-issued M9 9mm Beretta pistol
The guard used his government-issued M4 carbine (5.56 mm) to kill the two civilian workers and wound the third. From heavy.com:
The Columbia is a Los Angeles-class submarine, meaning it is a nuclear-powered fast attack submarine. At the time of the attack, the Columbia was in drydock for maintenance, and Romero was assigned as an armed guard to monitor the submarine.
The incident has dropped off the media radar. The murderer was an active duty sailor officially assigned guard duty. None of the infringements on Second Amendment rights being suggested by those who wish a disarmed population would have made the slightest difference in this case. All have exceptions for people who are engaged in their military missions while being officially armed by the government.
In this case, some have suggested the sailor had anger control and discipline problems. From hawaiinewsnow.com:
Romero used his service weapons ― an M4 rifle and an M9 pistol ― in the shooting and on Wednesday had been assigned to stand watch at a submarine undergoing repairs.
The multiple sources, who requested anonymity because of the ongoing investigation, expressed concern Romero had been assigned an armed position at the shipyard despite his history of problems.
(Excerpt) Read more at ammoland.com ...
“an armed sailor guarding the nuclear attack submarine”
Gee, you would think for duty like that you would have to pass a (or multiple) pych evals.
Or your name comes up on the duty roster.
You do.
It is not easy to get into the nuke programs.
My experience with duty rosters is they are very tightly regulated and controlled. Officers are taught they must be above reproach, everyone can examine the rosters, the duty has to be distributed fairly.
Usually it is a junior officer who has to do this job.
There were warnings about this guy. He was having real problems.
I suspect the officer's caution in following the rules, so as to not be accused of favoritism, overrode whatever doubts he might have had about the individuals fitness.
Most American civilians have no idea of what it is like to “draw” (acquire for use) a firearm in the military.
I’ve been out for a while, so some things may have changed.
Soldiers do not have their personal rifle or pistol at home.
Weapons are secured in an Arms Room.
If you really want to see some screaming and yelling, have someone “lose” a weapon during training.
Everything, EVERYTHING, comes to a halt until that weapon is found.
Usually, the unit is “in the field” when something like this happens.
Nobody gets to go back in or go home until that missing weapon is located.
Now, you have to remember that some of these Soldiers are 18 years old and have not grown up around firearms. They might be clerks or medical personnel or others whose primary job doesn’t involve firing a weapon in combat, usually.
“Losing” a weapon can end careers. A leader can’t be with every Soldier 24 hours a day to make sure every weapon is at all times accounted for.
So, that 18 year old who has been up for three nights straight tromping through the mud in the cold rain lays his rifle down and forgets it in his haste to get on the truck.
Oh oh.
This is kind of meandering and it would take me pages to explain what weapons use in training and normal peacetime operations is like.
Suffice it to say, like most things in life, it isn’t as easy as you would think it might be.
And no, I don’t have any good answers as to how to prevent stuff like what happened with that Saudi.
Let me get a cup of coffee and maybe I’ll know everything then.
Coffee is good.
I have seen what you describe.
Duty Rosters or Watch Bills, whatever they are called in the services, are expected to be fairly managed. Relief from duty when your number comes up is rare and granted only for a limited reason: on leave, scheduled for another duty, on sick call, etc. In this case, if he was on charges, or had a medical finding that he should not be issued a weapon, he would have be relieved from that particular duty. The Skipper could have certainly made the call, but if he was fit for duty, he would be expected to pull his duty.
And what Soldier hasn’t enjoyed the time-honored tradition of cleaning a weapon for turn in “to the armorer’s standards”?
God bless armorers, because they will have to clean your weapon if they accept it back to the Arms Room and it is dirty.
But, oh lord, the hours I spent cleaning weapons in the Army.
I grew up around firearms and I was taught to keep them clean, but, oh lord, the hours I spent cleaning weapons in the Army.
You didn’t just clean them to keep them functional. You cleaned them for punishment. You cleaned them to keep you busy. You cleaned them to show you were a good Soldier and could show attention to detail.
And you cleaned them when you were tired and just wanted a hot shower and some sleep.
Please, no one write me about how you have to keep your weapon clean so it will function when you need it.
I already know that.
I’m just describing what it’s like so people who have never been in the military can have a small glimpse into what it’s like to deal with weapons in the military.
Exactly. If he was relieved from duty, there would likely have been griping that he was being unfairly given a pass.
I had people complain when one of my guys was exempted from some duties due to a documented medical condition.
The belief persisted that he had got special treatment after he retired, and until he died, rather prematurely, from the medical condition.
You are doing a good job of it.
I have to wonder if the shooter isn’t in some ethnic group, say Hispanic, that made leadership reticent to deal with his issues appropriately. PC in the military command structure is very much a thing after 8 years of Obama.
Been there, done that more than once. M16s, M1911s, NVGs.
One time for a missing bayonet. The entire battalion back in the field until it was found.
And if you think highly trained Soldiers can’t do stupid things with weapons, then you’ve never been in the military.
Us Lieutenants had to pull Staff Duty Officer. Somebody had to be at the headquarters at night and on weekends and on holidays.
We had to be armed.
One Lieutenant managed to fire off a round while sitting on the toilet.
No, I have no idea what he was doing.
He was prior Enlisted, too, so you can’t blame it on inexperience.
He was sent to Korea within a week.
That’s where you went if you were married and you screwed up. You couldn’t take your family to Korea and you were there for a year.
That’s just one of several incidents with firearms in the military that I recall.
There was a cartoon that circulated around the unit about using the toilet for a firing position. It was hilarious.
You know, I can see the M-16 and NVG (when they were new), but a M1911.
I carried a P-38 can opener on my dog tags and I thought I was probably deadlier with that than with my M1911.
LMAO!
My money is on a affair between the sailors wife and the civilian he shot first, the rest just got in the way
There were warnings and complaints against Ft. Hood’s Hasan, too.
People sometimes go off the deep end. It happened on my sub one dark cold Feb. night. The fellow gave no prior clues, was a hard worker, and was well liked by the crew. He just flipped out, shot some rounds at tender folks routing a demin water hose. The duty section disarmed the fellow then he promptly jumped overboard. To help us out, we had freezing rain that night complicating the situation. Yes the dog house was up too.
At Fort Knox, I found part of the pole for the guidon that the guidon bearer lost. Saved the guidon bearer from having to march the route again to find it.
His name was Gabriel Romero. And you can stop wondering, though he wasn't Hispanic.
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