Posted on 09/15/2019 8:10:21 AM PDT by NorseViking
KYIV, Ukraine (AP) — The Ukrainian president's envoy for peace talks with Russia-backed separatists expressed concern Friday that the leaders of France and Germany will push Ukraine to make unacceptable concessions to Russia.
Ukraine and Russia have been locked in a bitter standoff since 2014, when Russia annexed the Crimean Peninsula and threw its weight behind separatists in eastern Ukraine. Hopes for a solution to the separatist conflict in eastern Ukraine, which has claimed more than 13,000 lives, were revived after political novice Volodymyr Zelenskiy was elected Ukrainian president in April.
But his envoy, Leonid Kuchma, told The Associated Press he is concerned that France and Germany, who are mediating the talks, will push President Zelenskiy to make trade-offs, such as approving a plan for the separatists to hold local elections in the areas they control without any oversight by the Ukrainian government.
(Excerpt) Read more at yahoo.com ...
Ukraine wants in NATO now. But they still have to meet reform standards.
Pres. Zalensky who won with 73% of vote, met with NATO in June.
In time, they will join NATO, like most of Russia’s former allies.
Poland, Czech, Hungary, etc...
Gobbledegook.
Most of the residents of Austrian Lemberg (Polish Lwow, Ukrainian L'viv) and its hinterlands (Galicia and Volhynia) identify with globohomo and want to be part of the West. The rest of the population are spiritually Russian.
The idea of a unitary Ukrainian state encompassing these two very different peoples - different in religion, different in philosophy of life, different in views of the West - is foolishness.
Ukraine doesn’t qualify for NATO for a reason of ongoing territorial dispute, just like Georgia. Even if they would award DNR&LNR Confederacy de-jure autonomy and de-facto independence they still claim Crimea for their own. It is disqualifying factor especially in light of fact that NATO mostly wanted Crimea to start with.
Also Hungarians and Romanians in the Southwest.
Does this mean you think the Hungarians are wrong to vividly remember the Muslim threat and massacres of the 16th century?
Non-sequitur. Currently they face the suppression of their culture by the Ukrainian government as well.
“argument for Russia reabsorbing Ukraine”
We hear these type of totalitarian arguments all the time. La Raza wants to reabsorb the US southwest and Al Qaeda wants to reabsorb Spain.
The company you keep...
Poor response. Hungary’s response to muslim migration as promoted by EU globalists is definitely rooted n their memories of the past. Are you some quasi Russian troll from Tallinn or something?
The response fit the Non-sequitur question. There are no parallels between these situations.
You guys are making a strawman. Once again I am all for an independent Ukraine. The argument was about Ukrainian nuclear status which is a pure insanity.
Now you’re backtracking. In post #13, you argued that Ukrainians didn’t hate the Russians, and that any such suggestion was a dated opinion. You even provided anecdotal evidence. My suggestion that you read a recent book was posted to indicate that there was evidence to the contrary. And now you’re for Ukrainian independence? Choose a side, mate!
Or, the US could absorb Sonora and Chihuahua, and Spain could repossess Morocco.
Is it your view that borders don't change?
They change all the time.
I see a possible precedent here. Its a take over border issue. Khrushchev gave the parcel to Ukraine for saving Russia’s ass in WWII. Now they want it back? The German borders were moved back westward stopping at the Oder river. How long before they’ll want their eastern territory that is now Poland?
Now you mixed three things into one instead of earlier two and tries to make argument out of it.
That’s illogical.
Issue #1 Ukrainian independence.
Issue #2 Ukrainian nuclear status.
Issue #3 Ukrainian hatred of Russians.
Is it correct? I guess it is.
Now tell me what makes direct correlation between these issues?
Correct answer is nothing.
Ukraine might be independent without nukes and hatred or Russians.
Or it might be dependent with nukes and hatred of Russians.
And the whole lot of other combinations possible based on simple algebraic principles.
Don’t fool yourself and everybody else.
Khruschev didn’t gave parcel over WWII. Khruschev gave Crimea because the bridge between Crimea and mainland Russia was destroyed in 1944 and there was no connection. It was easier to administer from Ukraine because it is a peninsula and has indeed land connection to Ukraine. It wasn’t a problem since Ukraine and Russia were both states of a single federation.
If you are to go deeper in history Ukraine in current form NEVER existed as a nation-state before 1992.
It didn’t exist ever in any form before 1920 and then only briefly. Any source claiming otherwise is a Bolshevik propaganda designed to ruin Russian Empire by inspiring any kind of secessionist movement and later its adaptations by Nazi Germans mainly for the same purpose but targeting USSR.
Once again all of the above don’t exclude the possibility of Ukrainian independence as a fact recent reality.
All we’re trying to find out, bucko, is where you stand on all this. The more you text, the more you obfuscate.
Outside of neo-fascist strong holds like Liviv, this is simply not true.
There are literally millions of Ukrainians living and working in Russia.
I made it very clear. I am for independent Ukraine, without nukes, and without hatred of Russians based on that three parameters you have set.
When I say independent I mean truly independent but not in a sense that it is independent of Russia but dependent from something else.
I agree the Senate never signed anything.
However see
Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum_on_Security_Assurances
If I was Ukraine I would think we had been “guaranteed”!
Probably so, unless you have background in international law. On the other hand Ukraine still exists and it means guarantees worked.
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