Posted on 08/16/2019 6:30:54 AM PDT by central_va
With the “Fight for $15 External link ” making headlines, opinions abound about whether raising the federal minimum wage will have a positive or negative effect on unemployment rates. Advocates of an increase cite the impossible task of making ends meet on today’s paltry sum of $7.25 an hour and say an increase would have little effect on the overall economy. Those against such a move predict that doing so would cause employers to lay off more and hire less—raising unemployment rates as a result. As is often the case with such emotionally charged issues, especially in an election year, the broader conversation about the minimum wage tends to involve more feeling than historical fact. To balance such a dynamic, we decided to turn to the data to see what it reveals.
(Excerpt) Read more at onlinebusiness.syr.edu ...
Someone didn’t get the reference .
You need to keep your story straight. First you said that wages were based on “productivity.” I said pooh to that, except in limited circumstances. Now, you are saying, “And why WOULD I pay more than I have to?” Which, if you will recall, is what I said most people do. You don’t get to live in both realities. I suspect what you just said is the better reality.
Which, is why you need minimum wages in the first place. Because without them people would pay people not enough to live on. Which, is what minimum waqes have become. Hence, the rest of us have to supplement the wages with food stamps, housing vouchers, electricity vouchers, Obama phones, Medicaid, etc.
And suppose for just one moment that you were a good Christian man, and wanted to treat your employees fairly, and with respect. And were not overly greedy. What would happen to you in the Real World? Some other clown down the street would pay his people less, and cut his prices, and you would end up broke, on your butt, and on unemployment and food stamps. That is why having a minimum wage law is fair. It levels the playing field and protects us all from the natural selfishness of others.
And yes, I have owned my own business.
The market is even more fair, will determine fair wages, level the paying field, and I don’t have to worry about being at the whims of SJW’s like you.
You said, “The market is even more fair, will determine fair wages,”
Huh??? Are you delusional??? That is more of that Theory Land stuff. I mean geeesh, the whole reason we are having this discussion is because the “market” flopped and big time. People can not live on minimum wages any more, even than they can afford to go to college. So no, “the market” did not take care of things. That is why the H1B Employers are bringing in cheaper techs from overseas, for example. And why food stamps are a thing for the working poor.
Then get rid of the safety net for working people. That should solve it.
I know, I did send you a private message. Sorry about that. I should have known that he was the Attorney. They need all of these laws to justify their necessary evil existence.
An just for the record....as a small business owner myself, I’m on your side. So it might be nice if you ask the Admin Moderator to remove your post!
The market flopped because the government interfered with it doing what idiots like you think it should, “making it fair”. You will never learn. There is no point in debating with you.
When has the market actually had a chance to work? We do not have much of a free market. I am just trying to defend what’s left. You want to take us further down the rabbit hole that got us into trouble. I have a secredt for you...Government is not smarter than the market, and neither are lawyers.
OK! Now we have Theory Number 2. (Or is it 3 or 4) The “market” would be just peachy if the gov’t stayed out of things. Well, let me clue you in! The government ain’t never going to stay out of things. It never has, and it never will. This government, and every other one that has been or will be, is run by a select few people, and they will always cater to money. Why do you think we have H1B’s??? You might have degrees of better and worse, but no government nowhere on Earth is going to get out of the “market.” You might as well opine about how wonderful things would be if we were all running around nekkid in The Garden of Evil. So, that being said, why then can not government try to fix some of the problems by establishing a reasonable minimum wage? I can’t think of any reason. It worked for a long time before inflation made a fool of it.
Hey, a great question! I bill only for my work, and for work done by my legal assistant. My rates are put out right up front! And, I have to live in the Real World, so there is a wide gap between what I want, and what I think I deserve, and what I end up with. But if you have a problem with laws, and the people who work in that field, then I suggest that you move to some place more free-spirited! Where the whole “law” thingy is less stringent. Maybe Baltimore or Detroit!
However, you miss the important part of the equation, and that is skilled positions are going to demand more in compensation as a result of unskilled positions creeping more towards their earning levels. We have seen this for decades now, so we have actual empirical data that bears this to be true.
You may find this unfair, but by design these are are incentives to work harder and learned skills that will be desired by employers.
You are right that the unskilled jobs are never going to pay more unless, 1. The gov’t increases the minimum wage; or 2. There is a severe shortage in unskilled labor; or 3. The Mexicans and Central Americans get homesick’ or 4.Aliens land and make a change to the DNA in humans.
That being said, yes, a higher minimum wage would result in all workers getting a bump. The guy who makes $10/hour would get one. Is this a bad thing? The middle classes have been declining for years, and cheap labor, out sourcing to China, and “Free” Trade are a big part of the problem. Maybe what you see as a bad thing is a good thing?
As for severe shortages of of unskilled labor, unfortunately it will never happen. What you may accomplish with reducing incentives is creating even more unskilled adults. Even if the minimum wage was raised to 50.00 per hour, they will never gain ground. Because the ground will alter making their gains non-existent.
The only ones who can change their station in life are those who wish to change it. False propping up does not work.
You cannot change someone's IQ by raising the lowest IQ number, nor can you create a living wage by raising the minimum wage. Propped up minimums only shift the scale, but not the realities.
Can't you see the flaw in your logic? It sounds good on paper, as well as, the spoken word. Reality is reality and reality takes over, while good intentions fail. You create an endless cycle that ends with increased misery, not less.
When I was 18 I had NO desire to live at my parent's house.
In 1972 I was actually living on the minimum wage with the help of 55 hour weeks and overtime. And I could smoke dope in my living room wearing a tee shirt and underwear LOL. However, I had no intention of being a minimum wage worker for life. My father said that minimum wage work taught one a work ethic and reminded one to better themself and move up.
There's something wrong upstairs with someone who wants to keep living with mom and dad after HS. When our daughter was about 14 she told us that if she was still living here after 18 to please kick her out. ha ha. Didn't have to. She finished HS at 16 and went off to college out of state.
I do not know why you are discussing “free stuff.” Being paid a minimal amount to WORK, is not “free stuff.” As far as inflation, that is one thing (among several) that has helped make the current minimum wage ridiculous. Check this out:
” The light blue line starts with 1968 — the year the current value of the federal minimum wage peaked at $9.90, adjusted to 2017 dollars — and shows what minimum wage would be had it kept up with the average wage growth. Had the minimum been adjusted for average growth, today’s minimum wage would be $11.62.
And the dark blue line shows the federal minimum wage had it grown at the same rate as American productivity, reaching $19.33 this year, more than double what it actually is. “
https://www.businessinsider.com/how-much-higher-the-federal-minimum-wage-should-be-2017-12
But then consider that some costs have risen FASTER and more than the rate of inflation. For example medical cost, home prices and rents. That is why $16 hr is probably closer to the minimal amount it would take to get by.
As far as Venezuela, I think you are overdoing the whole inflation argument. I doubt we will be eating zoo animals and hunting down cows with clubs and rocks if folks who are flipping burgers get paid a livable wage.
And, another thing, how come nobody worries about inflation when their stock portfolio is going up??? As far as old folks on Social Security - you should have done some more thinking on that one. What do you figure those low wages do to a person who turns full retirement age after having earned low wages for a life time? People who never made enough extra money to invest, or whose companies were too cheap to provide pensions. Or benefits?
It ain’t 1972 no more. In 1972 the minimum wage was much closer to what it actually cost to pay for a basic living. Now, it is 2019 and it just don’t cover the basics no more.Not to mention the difficulty of obtaining 40 hour per week unemployment. Fifty or so years will do that.
Fifty years of government manufactured inflation will do that.
Are you aware that Venezuela has the largest oil reserves in the world? (You would have if you had watched the video I linked to in a previous post). This is why they voted in Chavez, to give them free stuff to raise their standard of living. All was good until the price per barrel fell. That created their downfall, while ours just might be our ever expanding debt. Currently we enjoy being the world's currency, if that changes that also might change our abilities as well.
Nope, best to allow the market set prices, not government intervention. It never works. I understand, you are a caring person, but the road to hell is paved with good intentions. Reality is reality.
What happened when Obama made employers pay for benefits for those working 40 hours per week? They limited the employees hours to under 35, so that they could escape the regulations mandating they pay benefits. I rarely eat at fast food places anymore because my tastes can no longer stomach most of the food. But on the rare occasions that I do, I feel the meal I get does not equal the price I pay. Problem is that this hurts the businesses by those who either forgo or pack their own lunch due to the cost.
The only thing that causes these companies to raise the salaries of employees are to attract a higher quality of employee. But even that depends upon the marketplace to be able to bear those extra costs. If not, then companies are driven out of business, or if they can flee to where they can save their company by utilizing cheaper labor abroad.
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