Posted on 10/23/2018 10:14:36 AM PDT by Kaslin
"We are going to reach the United States," declares one Erasmo Duarte, as he and a couple of thousand would-be Americanos hike northward through Mexico toward the Promised Land -- with scant appreciation, I'm afraid, for the non-welcome in store for them at the Rio Grande border and points west.
The marchers say they're coming. Donald Trump says they ain't. That pretty much settles things to Trump's advantage, without settling the vexed issue of cross-border access in an age unsure how much nationalism in human affairs is just the right amount of nationalism.
The last immigration moderate still standing in America proposes to weigh in on this great matter.
That plenty of Hondurans might be sick of violence and poverty in Honduras is easy to see. The last-immigration-moderate-still-standing (hereafter, the "LIMSS") has gone on mission trips to Honduras. He sees their point.
That you can't be allowed just to cross borders because you want to and wherever you want to should be equally easy to see. Why is it not?
At least partly because of two admirable human emotions: pity and compassion. Nobody leaves a well-paying job and happy hearth to tread the path of the unwelcome stranger. Newcomers want a better life. Thus, pity and encouragement well up from Americans differently situated: well fed, well housed, well protected. In addition, with employment lower than in half a century, employers need more workers. Politicians, after the manner of their breed, have their own happy dreams: grateful, duly enfranchised newcomers electing them and their friends to Congress.
On the other hand...
Whereas refugees from political persecution normally find hospitality in free countries, self-election as a refugee, based on economic deprivation, is a non-starter. It has to be. Come one, come all -- the policy of the Honduran caravaners -- is unworkable, as anybody who gives the matter an instant's thought can plainly see.
Jurisdictional boundaries -- a part of the structure of rules protecting life and civilization -- are a necessity. Any country enjoys the right to decide, generously or otherwise, who gets to live within its borders.
Such is and always was the case, millennia before evolution and divine will -- or caprice -- gave us Trump. With Trump's off-the-wall image, the caravaners are playing games. They know he doesn't cotton to border-jumpers. They figure, nevertheless, that Democrats and liberal churchmen may put the full-court press on him, aided by social media and steaming commentary in The New York Times. Whether admitted or repulsed at the border, the caravaners must see large gains.
Their expectation may prove illusory, the LIMSS suggests. Americans barely know Honduras exists, far less that it's presently a mess. When Trump barks ultimately, "Alto! -- Halt!" that will take care of the matter; saving only the political cleanup from an affair helpful mainly to those who long for his impeachment and ouster. "Why, the big jerk! He hates the helpless!" Such is the political takeaway open borders advocates, here and south of the border, hope to manufacture -- to the general disadvantage, the LIMSS would add, of all who see the immigration wars as destructive and in grave need of settlement.
Settlement is a commodity you don't get in the absence of unpressured discussion leading to unforced concession -- freighted, as lightly as possible, with demagoguery.
There's always room in America for immigrants with needed and useful skills -- immigrants willing to play by ancient understandings that, with due room for the claims of justice, privilege a nation's own people over those from any other place.
The ancient understandings were at one time taken for common sense -- artifacts of thought, to which you said, "Well, yeah. Sure. Of course." The of-courseness, the taken-for-grantedness of the straightforward and natural, isn't precisely a feature of today's philosophical landscape. So Trump should brace for more cries than ever of "How dare you defend our borders?! " His assumed willingness to dare may do much more for his prestige and influence than many expect, far less hope.
Good ideas on how to stop or slow down. Bear in mind this is action inside a foreign country.
>>>”The end game by the libs to get images of U.S. Military or Law Enforcement shooting or beating women and children..”
Yes. And women and children will be fodder at the front of the mob.
Trick is to prevent this and stop them from entering. And, if they make it to the border, then what to do with them after stopping them.. Arrest, incarcerate? where, how...?
Again, you’d be inside the Mexican border? Or do you arrest and incarcerate 10k?
If the invaders reach the border, they will be processed. If they are processed, they will be admitted. If they are admitted they will be expelled, if ever, only after twenty years and twenty anchor babies.
The President worries me because sometimes he talks like he has no power. At times he seems almost passive. He has the power, and what power he doesn't have he better grab before the judges do. Not having the power never stopped a judge from claiming it for himself.
Abstract solutions like cutting off aid are right up there with "sanctions" to stop Iran's nuclear program. Of course we should cut off aid, but we have a more immediate problem that needs emergency measures and actions.
Close the border completely. No goods. No thru traffic. Mexican citizens going home and American and Canadian citizens coming back. That’s it.
Alternatively, slowly and thoroughly inspect every vehicle entering America for illegal immigrants.
When the line gets long enough and Mexican produce starts spoiling in the trucks, Mexico will stop the caravan.
Close the border completely. No goods. No thru traffic. Mexican citizens going home and American and Canadian citizens coming back. That’s it.
Alternatively, slowly and thoroughly inspect every vehicle entering America for illegal immigrants.
When the line gets long enough and Mexican produce starts spoiling in the trucks, Mexico will stop the caravan.
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OK so now that you got your obligatory shot at Sessions in, what would YOU have the Secretary of the Dept. of Homeland Security (who is actually the cabinet member responsible for border security) do? Under the law, how would she stop the caravan short of the border in Mexico? Do you suggest an invasion of Mexico, if so please tell us how that would work, I’m all ears.
You worry about Trump’s power- which Executive Orders would you suggest he issue, and how long do you think it would take for an activist judge to issue an injunction against it as has been done against every other EO he has issued that they don’t like?
You want emergency actions? What’s the emergency - so far the only country that has been invaded is Mexico. You “think” there will be a problem as they get to our border but you really don’t know and are just spitballing. That’s fine, we all can do that, but when you call for action it would be helpful to know what you think can be done to stop activities in another country that we don’t like, short of a declaration of war. Or is that your solution?
True, however, with the election just two weeks away, things must be done with discretion and be deniable.
BLOCKADE THE ROADS.
If they make it to the border, I would suggest Skunk Water.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skunk_(weapon)
Non-Lethal and can be used to “funnel” folks to where they can be processed rather than having thousands crossing across a broad stretch.
I’ll give you a solution whereas you would rather surrender to this invasion of criminal trespassers.
1) Immediately ban ANY taxpayer money for ANY benefits for ANY reason to ANYONE who entered the country illegally. NO EXCEPTIONS
2) Immediately start imposing $100,000 fines per criminal trespassing illegal hired by any business for any reason. NO EXCEPTIONS.
3) Eliminate the insane “Anchor Baby” policy.
Do those 3 things and the criminal trespassers will stop coming and the 11-22 million illegals already here will self deport.
Using our money to fund criminal trespassers is pure theft by our government using their brute force and thread of jail if we don’t surrender what we earned.
The way this is going, I think we lost to this second Soros/DNC voter invasion and “crisis”. It is like that the administration does not know what to do or inexplicably is way too passive. God, why do we have Sessions as AG? The next invasion will be in the hundreds of thousands.
So, revert to group think dogma and bash Sessions
Those trucks look all new and shiny and- clean. That’s not what you usually see with desperate refugees.
First, thanks for the good thoughtful reply. Second, don’t confuse asking hard questions with agreeing to “surrender”. I want nothing of the kind but I’m equally tired of reading thread after thread of arm-waving and gnashing of teeth without any concrete ideas. You have given some!
#1 is probably tough due to the fact they they lie and some states violate federal law in giving them benefits anyway. I like it but don’t know if or how it could practically be done without a huge backlash.
#2 Great idea. Think the law provides for this kind of fine? I don’t know but it could be pushed thru a willing Congress in weeks...ooops...there’s that
#3 Absol-freakin-lutley. What does it take? “Comprehensive immigration reform” doesn’t seem to get anywhere in our legislative branch, and there’s that body of law and the pesky 14th amendment they keep bringing up. Maybe after R’s win decisive victories in both houses of Congress things can move forward on this front.
Self-deportation does happen - I’ve seen it during the lean years after the 2007-8 recession. If no jobs here, then might as well go home and leach off the relatives you’ve been sending money back to...
Which brings up my own suggestion: I think Trump could do a couple of things short-term:
1. Put the immediate squeeze on Mexico. They’re enablers and they need the US a lot more than we need them. Financial penalties, make life misearable for anyone crossing the border, use the new USMCA, whatever tools are avaialable.
2. Do something to tax or apply a surcharge or something to all money transfers from the US to these countries. Use that money to BUILD THE DAMN WALL.
Thanks for the discussion.
2. Money transfers: Confiscate all money transfers. Return the funds upon proof of legality
Illegals will not claim the confiscated funds. Those funds can be used to build the wall.
So I'm not joining those who want to sit at their keyboards gnashing their teeth and criticizing Trump for not taking action.
I'm going to wait to see how this plays out and I have full confidence that Trump has this situation well in hand. I think a lot of people are in for a big surprise.
“It is like that the administration does not know what to do or inexplicably is way too passive.”
He said he is calling up the military to defend the border.
Since when has Trump telegraphed or leaked military moves? He’s not going have the military plan unfold on the evening news. Operational security. That’s how military actions succeed.
You aren’t going to see and know about what they do in advance. You may not even know anything until after it is all over.
I doubt that there is one migrant who has any anxiety on what could happen upon reaching the US border. He/she knows that they will not be fired at.
What is Trump’s plan?
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