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To: OIFVeteran
Until they created a perpetual union under the articles of confederation and than formed a more perfect union under the constitution.

The United Kingdom was perpetual too. Did this fact not register to you when you were typing that "Perpetual" thing?

The Declaration of Independence said that people had a right to be independent if they so chose to be. It didn't have an exception clause for nations that put the word "Perpetual" into their charter somewhere.

Besides, Lincoln was going to let the original seven states of the Confederacy leave if Virginia would assure him that they would stay. If Lincoln was going to let them leave, then what about your "Perpetual" argument? Care to try again?

124 posted on 07/20/2018 3:58:33 PM PDT by DiogenesLamp ("of parents owing allegiance to no other sovereignty.")
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To: DiogenesLamp; OIFVeteran
DiogenesLamp: "The Declaration of Independence said that people had a right to be independent if they so chose to be.
It didn't have an exception clause for nations that put the word "Perpetual" into their charter somewhere."

As always, DiogenesLamp misrepresents the facts.
In this case he uses the phrase "if they so chose to be", implying Founders endorsed unilateral declaration of secession "at pleasure" meaning, whenever they wanted.
Nothing could be more false.

In fact the Declaration of Independence makes 100% clear that it's an act of necessity, not "at pleasure", which compelled them to declare independence and lists two dozen specifics.
In historical fact the Brits had already declared Americans in rebellion and waged war on us for over a year before July 4, 1776.

Nothing remotely resembling such conditions existed in December 1860 when Deep South Fire Eaters began to unilaterally declare unapproved secession at pleasure.

DiogenesLamp: "Besides, Lincoln was going to let the original seven states of the Confederacy leave if Virginia would assure him that they would stay.
If Lincoln was going to let them leave, then what about your "Perpetual" argument?
Care to try again?"

A total lie.
Lincoln is claimed to have offered only to evacuate Fort Sumter in exchange for Virginia's promise not to secede.
Nothing in such an offer would imply Union recognition of Deep South secession.
And Virginians turned Lincoln down, so the issue is mute.

176 posted on 07/22/2018 5:23:47 PM PDT by BroJoeK ((a little historical perspective...))
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