Posted on 09/16/2017 7:53:01 PM PDT by grundle
When I encounter large companies acting in what appears to be a fraudulent matter, I presume I'm not special and that the company is harming the public in general. At that point I go slightly nuts and get far too aggressive (my wife says the right word is "rude") on the phone with customer support people who are not fundamentally at fault.
This happened yesterday with Amazon. I tried to wiggle out of my bad behavior to my wife using economics. I explained to my wife that being aggressive is a form of economic signaling to make people take your concerns seriously. But she would have none of that. "Rude is rude. Imagine you were at the other end of that call? How would you like being treated that way?"
She's right and I hereby issue a blanket apology to anyone in a customer support role that I've treated rudely over the phone in my 65 years on the planet. I also hope to be better behaved in the future.
Now to my concern about Amazon's shipping policy. And this is not connected to Amazon Prime, which has been the subject of several different class action lawsuits.
On Monday (November 21st, Today is November 23th), I purchased a birthday present for my wife directly from Amazon. Her birthday is on Saturday, but I wanted to ensure it arrived in time given the holiday traffic. So I paid an extra $30 for next day delivery. But at the back of my mind I sensed I had just thrown away $30. I buy a lot of things from Amazon and, while I haven't documented the number of cases, I have often paid for next-day delivery, yet the package didn't arrive on time.
I checked yesterday (Tuesday) using Amazon's tracking info and all looked good. The present would arrive by 8 PM. But when 8:30 PM showed up on the clock and the package hadn't arrived, I called Amazon's customer support. After the usual wait time, the Amazon support person came on the phone and was extremely polite. She immediately got UPS on the phone. UPS said they had no record of receiving the package, whereas Amazon's tracking said they had. I asked (with a rude tone of voice) how could that be? Isn't it the same electronic system being used? No answer. I wasn't sure they were getting my question, so I asked a few more times. Still no answer. UPS: We never received it. Amazon: We can't say where it is until UPS scans it. "But your system shows it handed over to UPS?" No answer.
The UPS person, who was also very polite, signed off. I asked the Amazon person, still amazingly polite, to please issue a refund for the $30. No, it's not yet midnight and, in any case, you need to contact the shipper, UPS, for a refund?
"But I paid Amazon the $30?"
"Yes, but the shipper is responsible."
"I write a column for Forbes that covers consumer fraud. This sounds like consumer fraud. Can you please have a supervisor call me. Here's my number."
"Please hold on."
"Ten minutes on hold and the supervisor was on the phone." Also very polite. "My colleague was wrong about the refund. I'm also going to refund your payment and extend your Amazon Prime service for one month."
"Thank you. But I'm interested in a bigger question. If Amazon sells expedited shipping and the parcel doesn't arrive on time, which Amazon can tell from its electronic tracking system, does Amazon refund the expedited shipping fee automatically? Or does the customer have to call?"
"The customer has to call."
"But many customers don't have time to call and be kept on hold and then reach someone and then told they have to argue with UPS and then be kept on hold to talk to a supervisor. You know from your electronic records when a customer paid for expedited shipping and it didn't take place. Also, shouldn't Amazon go back in its electronic records and discover all the people who paid for expedited shipping that wasn't provided and issue them refunds? Aren't you engaging in consumer fraud?"
"No one has ever suggested this before. I'll send an email to our technical team and maybe they'll consider doing this. Have a lovely Thanksgiving."
Now my blood was boiling. So was my wife's who thought I had used an angry tone of voice and was abusing powerless people in a huge company.
This morning I checked on Amazon. From their tracking system, the package sat with UPS for 24 hours in Kentucky and supposedly was sent out for delivery at 6:32 AM. It's exactly four hours later - no package. Amazon's system now "guarantees" delivery by 8 PM.
Bottom line. Amazon should immediately implement an automatic refund policy re charging customers for shipping services that they don't then provide. And the company should refund all payments for shipping services that were paid for, but weren't provided in the past. Amazon has the electronic means to do this. Not doing so truly does represent a form of theft. If Amazon's refund policy is not corrected immediately, I would hope some enterprising lawyer starts a class action suit against the company.
Mistakes and stupidity are not fraudulent. This guy is a whiner and an @55. Disappointments occur in all businesses to call them fraud sounds like a trail lawyers mating call.
If it was that important maybe he should try a dose of planning, you know, the kind the exhibits personal responsibility.
I have always had good luck with them as well. That is why the content of my post at #40 is so irritating to me.
I didn’t realize Amazon gave lower prices to EBT card holders.
(And I wonder what the difference is considered to be between cooked and live lobster??? Could it have something to do with the cooked lobster being taxable?)
This guy sounds like fruitcake. Fraud case because his order was a day late. Lol.
I admit I was shocked to see this. People might think I am overreacting, but if it is fine and dandy to offer a service like this to EBT holders at half the price they charge to everyone else, what other things could end up being part of this corporate virtue signaling?
How about Bose headphones?
Or Apple Computers.
How about diamond rings?
Point is, there are a lot of people who don’t mind helping out people in need, but when it gets to the point your money has less purchasing powers than there does, it is difficult to see it as anything other than wealth re-distribution.
I am going to guess it has something to do with buying cooked meals like at a restaurant.
They get all squishy (I think) when the cost of preparing food is factored in or something like that, I bet. Probably too close to allowing EBT recipients to use their card at Ruth Chris’s Steakhouses.
That’s a good general rule - I always assume that something can go wrong, and try to get things done with some leeway. But I don’t think it’s ‘suicidal’ if a package doesn’t arrive in time for the Big Day ;-)
Once my husband had my Christmas gifts sent to his office, and the delivery got all screwed up. He felt terrible; and I felt bad about him feeling terrible, NOT about the gift being late - and most women would react the same way.
Is Amazon’s Shipping Policy A Form Of Consumer Fraud?
...
What does the Washington Post have to say about it?
Either one, probably still Teamsters union. No shock they do not GAS.
We must live near each other because that’s our same experience: FedEx sucks, but UPS is golden!
“Check to make sure UPS isn’t handing it off to the USPS.
The USPS has lost 3 of our packages and delivers the rest 3-4 days later. “
Yes, and while I don’t fully understand the connections, both UPS and FedEX are kissing ass with the USPS, and the resultant delivery process is seldom done within the time the original shipper designated. Probably a result of worthless, overpaid, unionized government employees. I would go for a Constitutional Amendment that would shutter the USPS.
“In the past year I have had USPS report five packages as delivered, noted on both their web site and Amazon, and have had the packages delivered 24 to 48 hours later.”
Just like a veteran trying to get an appointment at a VA Hospital, right? They have jiggered the system to report “success” where there isn’t any.
Similar issue I have - USPS only leaves slips in my mailbox that I have a package I have to drive 10 miles to go pick up. Something about rural carriers and distance from mailbox to house. My USPS carrier doesn’t even try to bring packages with her. If my new prime membership causes more USPS use then I will cancel it. USPS hours are such that I can only pick up on saturdays.
I also wish carrier/delivery companies was a choice. I would pay extra to not have to deal with USPS!!!
“Similar issue I have - USPS only leaves slips in my mailbox that I have a package I have to drive 10 miles to go pick up. Something about rural carriers and distance from mailbox to house. My USPS carrier doesn’t even try to bring packages with her. If my new prime membership causes more USPS use then I will cancel it. USPS hours are such that I can only pick up on saturdays.”
Here in NorCal where I live, the USPS has the parcels on their truck and they bring them to the door along with the daily mail. Also, we have USPS making deliveries that are not part of their daily mail run. I suspect that this entry into agreements with UPS and FedEx will probably mean that the Feds will not cancel Saturday service in the near future.
I have consistently found that to be the case. I track all my amazon purchases through the shipper's website. If it's even one day delayed, I email amazon customer support. Usually, and in less than an hour, I've received an apology for the delay, an extension on my Prime membership expiration date, and some form of financial compensation that is sometimes beyond generous.
Yep, the USPS is absolutely horrible with making the final delivery. They will also do stuff like reporting that a package is out for delivery, then delivered—yet not deliver it until a day later. It is a massive bureaucracy that should be put out of its misery.
But Amazon is remarkably good and cheerful about making things right.
>> Unlike some I believe there is a time and place for lawsuits against big corporations.
I have no problem with Amazon despite its imperfections.
But there is a serious problem with the handful of Big Media corps that tacitly support Antifa, advance the cause of Leftism, cripple ordinary truths... Big Media includes Disney, Comcast, Viacom, and soon AT&T.
According to the gubmint, live lobster is OK, but cooked lobster is ineligible if it's still hot or intended to be consumed where purchased. I interpret the page to mean that cooked lobster is OK if cold and packaged to take home. If I'm wrong, someone should make a federal case out of it.
A made a few orders on Amazon recently all with 2-day free shipping and some came earlier but most came late by a day or so.
Still better than looking for the stuff in stores in those cases.
EBay has a policy through Pay Pal of screwing customers that actually costs PayPal and EBAY money and I do not understand how they justify it.
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