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How does the chain of command work on a USN Combat Vessel for Emergency Helm Correction?
beebuster News Bureau | August 23, 2017 | beebuster000

Posted on 08/23/2017 7:05:21 AM PDT by beebuster2000

Can a Freeper with experience "weigh" in please?

I am beginning to think the common problem in the recent USN accidents is a totally calcified chain of command where no one has the authority to take action in a moment of crisis. someone knows there is a problem but has to ask someone who has to ask someone for permission to act.

Isn't there ONE OFFICER on deck with the total and absolute responsibility and authority to alter course in real time to avoid collisions? Or is there no one person until way up the chain who can make a decision ?


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: usn
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1 posted on 08/23/2017 7:05:21 AM PDT by beebuster2000
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To: beebuster2000

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Officer_of_the_deck


2 posted on 08/23/2017 7:07:58 AM PDT by TexasGator
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To: beebuster2000

Apparently, it doesn’t.


3 posted on 08/23/2017 7:11:44 AM PDT by null and void (You can only see into the future as far as you can see into your past.)
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To: beebuster2000

The officer of the deck is responsible for the safe navigation of the ship. Everyone on the bridge and cic answers to him. The OOD only answers to the captain in those matters.


4 posted on 08/23/2017 7:12:22 AM PDT by neodad (USS Vincennes (CG-49) Freedom's Fortress)
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To: TexasGator

really? listen to this recording of an actual collision. does this sound like clear OOD chain of command?

https://pilotonline.com/news/military/local/audio-confusion-reigned-before-destroyer-s-collision/article_c7472be8-efcb-5763-93bb-aab66d820175.html


5 posted on 08/23/2017 7:12:26 AM PDT by beebuster2000
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To: TexasGator

Umm, some of the same navigation lines used by our ICBM’s to get to their target... Would hate to ‘send off a nuke’ to Pyongyang and have it hit San Francisco...

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2143499-ships-fooled-in-gps-spoofing-attack-suggest-russian-cyberweapon/

“On 22 June, the US Maritime Administration filed a seemingly bland incident report. The master of a ship off the Russian port of Novorossiysk had discovered his GPS put him in the wrong spot – more than 32 kilometres inland, at Gelendzhik Airport.”

“After checking the navigation equipment was working properly, the captain contacted other nearby ships. Their AIS traces – signals from the automatic identification system used to track vessels – placed them all at the same airport. At least 20 ships were affected.”


6 posted on 08/23/2017 7:14:11 AM PDT by GOPJ (Trump stood behind Hillary for 47 seconds in a debate - now she wants an eternal pity party.)
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To: beebuster2000
The officer of the deck is responsible for the ship.
(I was in the U.S. Navy for six years, four of them on sea duty)
7 posted on 08/23/2017 7:16:14 AM PDT by NewJerseyJoe (Rat mantra: "Facts are meaningless! You can use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!")
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To: beebuster2000
from my non naval business operating experience:
every major screw up ever, that i have seen, the people lower down in the organization knew exactly what to do but thought they shouldn't do it because they needed permission form above or because they thought someone above was smarter than them and therefore knew what was gong on. every time.

these accidents are starting to smell like that to me. i bet the lower down in rank you get in these incidents the clearer the peril and the greater clarity about exactly what should have been done.

it can not possibly be lack of nav info, my guess is the nav station is awash in really good info on collision and target tracking.

8 posted on 08/23/2017 7:17:15 AM PDT by beebuster2000
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To: beebuster2000
In the absence of the captain, the OOD has absolute authority to vary course and speed as necessary to avoid a collision. If the Captain comes on deck, the proper procedure if he wants to take over command is to issue a formal command that he has the conn/deck. At that point, he can give orders directly.

So yes, there is a procedure and a clear chain of command. Nobody has to wait for the captain to come on deck to take appropriate emergency action.

The particular example you provided of the captain coming on deck, pushing the OOD into a bad decision, and then giving orders directly without taking the conn, was a screw-up on the part of that captain. It doesn't indict or condemn standard Navy procedures, which is perfectly appropriate.

9 posted on 08/23/2017 7:20:48 AM PDT by Bruce Campbells Chin
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To: beebuster2000

Duh ... that is why the skipper was relieved.


10 posted on 08/23/2017 7:20:58 AM PDT by TexasGator
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To: beebuster2000

Your question assumes/presumes that was the problem - we don’t have enough data to really have a clue about how two of our war ships ended up being disabled by civilian vessels in that arena of operations. No way it is pure coincidence or as simple as “nobody had the authority to avoid a collision”.


11 posted on 08/23/2017 7:21:01 AM PDT by trebb (Where in the the hell has my country gone?)
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To: beebuster2000

Yes, there IS an officer on deck. But he and his significant other fudgepacker are over in a corner, otherwise occupied. Just as Barky Obama arranged it. IMHO.


12 posted on 08/23/2017 7:23:21 AM PDT by Tucker39 (Read: Psalm 145. The whole psalm.....aloud; as praise to our God.)
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To: neodad

The OOD’s duty whenever maneuvering is in question whatever the time is day or night is to get the CO to the bridge to take over. I was on mid watch on a destroyer in the Tonkin Gulf when we hit an Australian registry fishing tug that was DIW. According to my enlisted buddies on duty on the bridge and in CIC, we had the boat on surface radar at 15 miles and the visual contact at 12 miles with its running lights lit. The seas were dead calm glass and skies were crystal clear with no moon. The CO, a Commander, was awakened and was on the bridge at least a half hour before we hit the tug with our bow at around 5 knots. The fishing boat’s stern suffered some splintered wood above the waterline. Our bow suffered a 10 foot long gash just above the waterline. No one was injured on my ship and the 15 or so Vietnamese fisherman, who appeared to be asleep at the time of the collision, probably crapped their pajamas but were not hurt. We made port gingerly at Vung Tau and had emergency repairs done tied up to a tender. After we were buttoned up and seaworthy, we steamed to Subic Bay where the Change of Command ceremony was conducted,


13 posted on 08/23/2017 7:23:49 AM PDT by VietVet876
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To: beebuster2000

I’m waiting for these scenarios to appear in upcoming sci fi space novels.


14 posted on 08/23/2017 7:24:21 AM PDT by Ciexyz (I'm conservative & traditionalist.)
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To: beebuster2000; neodad; null and void

Umm, some of the same navigation lines used by our ICBM’s to get to their target... Would hate to ‘send off a nuke’ to Pyongyang and have it hit San Francisco...

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2143499-ships-fooled-in-gps-spoofing-attack-suggest-russian-cyberweapon/

“On 22 June, the US Maritime Administration filed a seemingly bland incident report. The master of a ship off the Russian port of Novorossiysk had discovered his GPS put him in the wrong spot – more than 32 kilometres inland, at Gelendzhik Airport.”

“After checking the navigation equipment was working properly, the captain contacted other nearby ships. Their AIS traces – signals from the automatic identification system used to track vessels – placed them all at the same airport. At least 20 ships were affected.”


15 posted on 08/23/2017 7:25:07 AM PDT by GOPJ (Trump stood behind Hillary for 47 seconds in a debate - now she wants an eternal pity party.)
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To: trebb; All
Your question assumes/presumes that was the problem - we don’t have enough data to really have a clue about how two of our war ships ended up being disabled by civilian vessels in that arena of operations. No way it is pure coincidence or as simple as “nobody had the authority to avoid a collision”.

Are you suggesting sabotage?
16 posted on 08/23/2017 7:26:13 AM PDT by notdownwidems (Washington D.C. has become the enemy of free people everywhere!)
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To: GOPJ
Interesting. Would spoofing the GPS satellite signals would offset everyone's locations to the same spot or by the same distance and bearing from their actual location?

In other words, is this an external issue, jamming, spoofing or overriding the GPS signals, or is it a systematic internal issue, where the GPS receivers themselves have malware that deliberately offsets them from Russian (and presumably Chinese?) military targets by 50 km?

Is it factory installed malware or a field update?

Is it software or firmware in Chinese manufactured GPS chips?

Can the "correction" be adjusted 'on the fly' by a mobile target, like a ship?

17 posted on 08/23/2017 7:28:19 AM PDT by null and void (You can only see into the future as far as you can see into your past.)
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To: beebuster2000

Diversity...

...don’t make it harder than it is.


18 posted on 08/23/2017 7:30:38 AM PDT by exPBRrat (.)
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To: VietVet876

Viet:

wow, good example and story. curious on what action was taken to avoid the fishing vessel since its location was known well in advance?


19 posted on 08/23/2017 7:31:12 AM PDT by beebuster2000
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To: null and void
If the same tactic was used on our jets they could be
‘landing’ according to navigation information but in fact flying into a building or an adjacent field... or landing in a nearby forest.

Note the city this original ‘exception’ happened near ... formerly a Russian ‘secret city’... major skunkworks stuff. (If I've got the right city - not a hundred percent sure...)

20 posted on 08/23/2017 7:34:47 AM PDT by GOPJ (Trump stood behind Hillary for 47 seconds in a debate - now she wants an eternal pity party.)
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