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That United flight wasn’t even “overbooked” — and that matters legally
Hotair ^ | 04/14/2017 | Cynthia Than

Posted on 04/14/2017 10:48:36 AM PDT by SeekAndFind

The fact that the flight was not overbooked may seem trivial, or pedantic, but there is very important legal distinction to be made. There may not be a difference in how an airline (typically) responds when it needs additional seats, such as asking for volunteers who wish to give up their seat for a voucher or cash. But there is a legal difference between bumping a passenger in the instance of overselling a flight versus bumping a passenger to give priority to another passenger. Any thoughtful person can see the problem that arises if an airline were allowed to legally remove one fare-paying passenger to allow for another passenger it prefers.

Since the flight was not actually overbooked, but instead only fully booked, with the exact number of passengers as seats available, United Airlines had no legal right to force any passengers to give up their seats to prioritize others. What United did was give preference to their employees over people who had reserved confirmed seats, in violation of 14 CFR 250.2a. Since Dr. Dao was already seated, it was clear that his seat had already been “reserved” and “confirmed” to accommodate him specifically.

A United Airlines spokesperson said that since Dr. Dao refused to give up his seat and leave the plane voluntarily, airline employees “had to” call upon airport security to force him to comply. However, since the flight was not overbooked, United Airlines had no legal right to give his seat to another passenger. In United Airline’s Contract of Service, they list the reasons that a passenger may be refused service, many of which are reasonable, such as “failure to pay” or lacking “proof of identity.” Nowhere in the terms of service does United Airlines claim to have unilateral authority to refuse service to anyone, for any reason (which would be illegal anyway).



TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: aviation; overbook; ual; unitedairlines
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To: Pollster1
With or without a sign, any business should have an almost unlimited right to refuse service.

But once they take your money and have it in their hands they should provide the service. It's too late to refuse the service when the check has already been cashed.

221 posted on 04/15/2017 8:01:40 AM PDT by CaptainK (...please make it stop. Shake a can of pennies at it.)
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To: dirtboy
" The author of this piece made a specific legal citation."

Of which neither she nor you even read it, did you? Did you? You didn't, so shut up and read it then apologize for being an ignorant and lazy poster.

Here is that legal citation that you and the author didn't read but quote.


14 CFR 250.2a - Policy regarding denied boarding.

In the event of an oversold flight, every carrier shall ensure that the smallest practicable number of persons holding confirmed reserved space on that flight are denied boarding involuntarily.


NOTHING in that regulation stipulates anything that you have said. It says the smallest practicable number, not "no one", shall be denied boarding involuntarily.
222 posted on 04/15/2017 8:10:18 AM PDT by CodeToad (If it weren't for physics and law enforcement, I'd be unstoppable!)
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To: stinkerpot65

“Legal or not, it was a scummy thing to do.”

That is the only conclusion worthy of posting on this matter. The airline may have had a legal right, but that doesn’t mean it was a good choice.

It takes a real idiot at the airline to think involuntarily removing a boarded passenger would be a good thing.

I have been boarded on planes and the speaker announces they need volunteers to deplane, happens frequently, but never have I seen a passenger tossed.


223 posted on 04/15/2017 8:12:53 AM PDT by CodeToad (If it weren't for physics and law enforcement, I'd be unstoppable!)
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To: CodeToad
The flight wasn't oversold, and the dude was not denied boarding, he was already on the plane. They wanted to removed paying, seated passengers to make room for employees.

First rule of holes applies to you here. Also, you still haven't answered what aspect of Rule 21 applied here, as I asked on another thread.

224 posted on 04/15/2017 8:13:30 AM PDT by dirtboy
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To: MeganC

“They do not have the right to bump someone for an employee who has not paid to be on the flight.”

Yes, they do.


225 posted on 04/15/2017 8:13:37 AM PDT by CodeToad (If it weren't for physics and law enforcement, I'd be unstoppable!)
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To: CodeToad

Oh, and I would stop the insults as well, given how many posters have shown how off your points are. Your ignorance appears to be deliberate, given how you attempted to apply a section used to deny boarding to justify removing someone who was already boarded, on a flight that was not oversold.


226 posted on 04/15/2017 8:22:17 AM PDT by dirtboy
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To: Mr. Douglas

Some people never learn. They eat up anything that the fakestream presstitutes dish out to them.

http://canadafreepress.com/article/how-the-united-passenger-suckered-us


227 posted on 04/15/2017 8:47:33 AM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum (Some people consider government to be a necessary evil, others their personal Ponzi scheme.)
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To: Pollster1

I wasn’t arguing that there was legal breach of contract, the article was. The original point was that contract law would govern this situation, not the inviolable concept of private property rights. However, I don’t see anything in what you posted to suggest that the airline didn’t breach the contract. The doctor only resisted AFTER he was approached by the security guys, which was only after the airline had acted in violation of the contract by demanding the passenger leave. Up until that point, the doctor appears to have been a well-behaved, fully-paid and seated passenger.


228 posted on 04/15/2017 12:39:06 PM PDT by fr_freak
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To: dirtboy

You claimed a legal reference that wasn’t applicable, yet, you claim others are digging holes.

Don’t know what makes you so stupid but it really works.


229 posted on 04/15/2017 12:53:11 PM PDT by CodeToad (If it weren't for physics and law enforcement, I'd be unstoppable!)
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To: CodeToad

You are the one who cited about restricting boarding on oversold flights, when the person had already boarded and the flight was not oversold. Since you apparently could care less about the relevance of your comments and only seek to be an argumentative and irrelevant pain in the ass, you may have the last word, as further discourse on this subject with you is futile.


230 posted on 04/15/2017 1:11:19 PM PDT by dirtboy
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To: Mr. K
I would guess Dr Dao's lawyers wish they were going up against YOU snd your logic in court.

The verdict, on behalf of Dr. Dao, for a $100,000,000 million dollar settlement would be in in less than 5 minutes.

231 posted on 04/15/2017 1:20:51 PM PDT by VideoDoctor
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

The only thing missing in that story is that United was outside of the law and its own guidelines. They set themselves up for the lawsuit with their actions.


232 posted on 04/15/2017 1:22:49 PM PDT by dirtboy
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To: dirtboy

What about Mr. Dildao? Any “guidlines” that apply to his insane behavior? Other than lawsuit-lottery “cha-ching?”


233 posted on 04/15/2017 3:16:20 PM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum (Some people consider government to be a necessary evil, others their personal Ponzi scheme.)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

Immaterial. United and the Chicago Airport Police were in the wrong. He would not have grounds for a lawsuit if United had acted differently.


234 posted on 04/15/2017 3:40:23 PM PDT by dirtboy
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To: dirtboy

So you have all the facts!

You must be clairvoyant!


235 posted on 04/15/2017 3:50:08 PM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum (Some people consider government to be a necessary evil, others their personal Ponzi scheme.)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

Please show me what Dao did wrong, legally. Versus the ample legal wrongs committed by United and the Chicago Airport Police.


236 posted on 04/15/2017 3:56:58 PM PDT by dirtboy
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To: CaptainK

Yes but the ‘many more’ that are for the doctor do not make legal right or wrong, the law does. And the law is on United’s side


237 posted on 04/16/2017 2:46:31 AM PDT by Mr. K (***THERE IS NO CONSEQUENCE OF OBAMACARE REPEAL THAT IS WORSE THAN KEEPING IT ONE MORE DAY***)
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To: FamiliarFace

while that is (finally) a good question here, I don’t know. I would tend to think that if there was another option they would rather keep the paying customers


238 posted on 04/16/2017 2:49:11 AM PDT by Mr. K (***THERE IS NO CONSEQUENCE OF OBAMACARE REPEAL THAT IS WORSE THAN KEEPING IT ONE MORE DAY***)
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To: Pollster1
"I’ve been minimizing comment on this fiasco and just enjoying the show, but I agree with you. That airplane is private property. If at any time on the ground they decide not to serve a customer, they have the legal right to ask that person to leave (just like a restaurant, or like a girl who invites you over for “dinner” and changes her mind before dessert)."

Sorta like I can decide not to serve a customer at my bakery regardless of his choice of a straight or gay wedding cake?

Or sorta like I can decide not to serve a customer at my lunch counter regardless of his skin color?

239 posted on 04/16/2017 2:57:15 AM PDT by Mad Dawgg (If you're going to deny my 1st Amendment rights then I must proceed to the 2nd one...)
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To: Mr. K
And the law is on United’s side

You have yet to make a single citation backing your claims. Which makes those claims very hollow.

240 posted on 04/16/2017 2:13:40 PM PDT by dirtboy
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