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That United flight wasn’t even “overbooked” — and that matters legally
Hotair ^ | 04/14/2017 | Cynthia Than

Posted on 04/14/2017 10:48:36 AM PDT by SeekAndFind

The fact that the flight was not overbooked may seem trivial, or pedantic, but there is very important legal distinction to be made. There may not be a difference in how an airline (typically) responds when it needs additional seats, such as asking for volunteers who wish to give up their seat for a voucher or cash. But there is a legal difference between bumping a passenger in the instance of overselling a flight versus bumping a passenger to give priority to another passenger. Any thoughtful person can see the problem that arises if an airline were allowed to legally remove one fare-paying passenger to allow for another passenger it prefers.

Since the flight was not actually overbooked, but instead only fully booked, with the exact number of passengers as seats available, United Airlines had no legal right to force any passengers to give up their seats to prioritize others. What United did was give preference to their employees over people who had reserved confirmed seats, in violation of 14 CFR 250.2a. Since Dr. Dao was already seated, it was clear that his seat had already been “reserved” and “confirmed” to accommodate him specifically.

A United Airlines spokesperson said that since Dr. Dao refused to give up his seat and leave the plane voluntarily, airline employees “had to” call upon airport security to force him to comply. However, since the flight was not overbooked, United Airlines had no legal right to give his seat to another passenger. In United Airline’s Contract of Service, they list the reasons that a passenger may be refused service, many of which are reasonable, such as “failure to pay” or lacking “proof of identity.” Nowhere in the terms of service does United Airlines claim to have unilateral authority to refuse service to anyone, for any reason (which would be illegal anyway).



TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: aviation; overbook; ual; unitedairlines
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To: samtheman

Ditto.

Like high schools that require xxx hours of “volunteer” service to graduate. They are so stupid that they can’t see the paradox of “mandatory volunteering”


181 posted on 04/14/2017 1:55:49 PM PDT by ChildOfThe60s ("If you can remember the 60s........you weren't really there")
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To: Mr. K

The article you quote from a couple of days ago contains the flawed reasoning of the early reports on this incident.

“United was required, by law, to contact federal aviation security when Dr. Dao ran back into the plane after being escorted out....”
Huh? They contacted the local Chicago airport police (not federal aviation security) that tazed him, manhandled him causing a concussion, broken nose, and loss of two front teeth, then left him unconscious in the breezeway where he awoke alone and in a dazed state, then going back to the plane. No excuse for the illegal actions in the first place.

Regarding the “must fly... man a flight in order to avoid cancellation” didn’t require the already boarded passengers leave their seat. Tough luck, United, they had to get their people there. Lots of ways they could do that, increasing the incentive for a passenger to leave being the simplest, most obvious option. Bringing in untrained local “police” not trusted to even carry a firearm was not the wisest choice, which they now recognize in their announcement that they won’t do so again.


182 posted on 04/14/2017 2:02:11 PM PDT by LibertyOh
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To: BfloGuy
the doctor had every right to remain on board.

Yeah and I have 2nd amendment rights too, but they still take my guns whenever they want. The moron got exactly what he wanted, a law suit.

183 posted on 04/14/2017 2:03:38 PM PDT by itsahoot (As long as there is money to be divided, there will be division.)
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To: scripter
I figured the so-called police in this UA issue didn't have the authority to arrest anybody.

I'm betting that in discovery, it'll be found out that United Airlines in Chicago is instructed to use Chicago Airport Police to do their dirty work for this because the Chicago Police would tell them 'this is a civil dispute over an airplane seat, you work this out.'

184 posted on 04/14/2017 2:04:51 PM PDT by Snickering Hound
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To: LibertyOh
Put your bar card away I could care less his rights didn't supersede all those others on the plane or the airlines, who by the way did not manhandle the guy.

This is just a story to change the weekly narrative.

Chris Rock - How not to get your @ss kicked by the police!

185 posted on 04/14/2017 2:10:32 PM PDT by itsahoot (As long as there is money to be divided, there will be division.)
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To: Fantasywriter

Catchy. You should work for Hallmark.


186 posted on 04/14/2017 2:15:36 PM PDT by Kellis91789 (We hope for a bloodless revolution, but revolution is still the goal.)
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To: itsahoot

“I could care less his rights didn’t supersede all those others on the plane or the airlines, who by the way did not manhandle the guy.”

With respect to others on the plane, they all had the same rights to remain on the plane as boarded passengers. The airline had no right to disembark any of them. They were just too cheap to offer enough for people to leave - when one couple suggested a number they laughed rather than negotiate.

The airline employees did not understand their own contract responsibilities. The local airport “police” did not understand their limitations on what authority they had. These “police” authorities were called onto the plane to provide a service to the airline and the airline will ultimately be responsible, while they will likely also bear responsibilities (and likely do the actual prison time for assault).


187 posted on 04/14/2017 2:22:54 PM PDT by LibertyOh
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To: BobL

I didn’t know that libertarianism was now equivalent to fascism, or maybe highway robbery? A ticket is a contract. A contract is a contract. He paid for a service. What about the non-aggression principle? United stinks, as anyone who has flown them knows.


188 posted on 04/14/2017 2:24:24 PM PDT by SecAmndmt (Arm yourselves!)
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189 posted on 04/14/2017 2:27:57 PM PDT by LucyT
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To: BobL

That is a non sequitur.

In what way should we support the right of United not to serve this passenger after they have taken his money and seated him on the plane when he has not broken any condition of carriage from their contract? They don’t have that right & no thinking person would suggest they do.

United has the right to cancel the flight for cause but not to deny a boarded passenger solely because they now want his seat for a higher value passenger or someone who will pay a premium for the seat.


190 posted on 04/14/2017 2:41:37 PM PDT by JayGalt
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To: DouglasKC
That's not really a good example. In the case of any transportation services (freight or passengers), the "purchase" technically isn't completed until you get to your destination.

Here's a better example ...

1. You go to a car dealership, sign a contract to purchase a car, put down a deposit on the vehicle with the VIN# ABC-123.

2. The dealer agrees that the car will be prepped and ready for you to pick it up a week later.

3. You show up a week later, only to find that the dealer has sold the car to someone else, and it's sitting out there in the parking lot waiting to be picked up. Maybe another buyer offered more money. Maybe the owner of the dealership sold it to a golfing buddy.

4. The dealer offers you a similar car with the VIN# XYZ-789. But you are adamant that this isn't good enough, and you have a binding contract in your hand.

If this were to happen you'd have plenty of recourse. You'd be entitled to your money back, either in cash or as a credit for another purchase. Maybe the contract contained a provision that said the dealer has to give you a full refund plus an extra $500 for your trouble. Whatever it is, you're either leaving the dealership made whole or you have plenty of legal avenues you can pursue.

One option you absolutely do not have is to climb behind the wheel of car #ABC-123 in the parking lot and tell the dealership staff that you're not leaving unless they give you the keys and let you drive the car away.

The management of the dealership will call the police to deal with you, and the police will deal with you as they see fit -- even if they have to drag your ass out of the car and injure you in the process.

Dr. Dao learned that he wasn't going to be driving the car off the lot that day.

191 posted on 04/14/2017 2:42:44 PM PDT by Alberta's Child
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To: Dick Vomer

I know the conditions of carry and the legal opinions all site those as well. The airline is limited to ejecting you for cause after you have been seated or getting you to volunteer. The CEO of United concurs with this assessment in his 2nd Statement.


192 posted on 04/14/2017 2:44:21 PM PDT by JayGalt
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To: Snickering Hound

I wouldn’t be shocked if the plaintiff’s attorney tries to get a change of venue out of Cook County. I suspect he’ll have a harder time getting a bunch of jurors sympathetic to a 69 year-old doctor from Vietnam in Cook County than almost anywhere else in the country.


193 posted on 04/14/2017 2:48:47 PM PDT by Alberta's Child
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To: Mr. K

This is garbage. The man ran back after being concussed. All the beat down action was taken before he ran back in. Do your homework don’t just buy into the blog of a “pilot’s wife”.


194 posted on 04/14/2017 2:50:20 PM PDT by JayGalt
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To: SeekAndFind
UAL photo webwededcar12co1_1.jpg
195 posted on 04/14/2017 2:54:48 PM PDT by B212
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To: Pollster1
it is their right

But if the passenger told the flight crew he wanted them to bake a cake for a gay wedding? Just asking....

196 posted on 04/14/2017 3:02:05 PM PDT by Magnum44 (My comprehensive terrorism plan: Hunt them down and kill them)
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To: hopespringseternal

hey stupider - they didnt throw him off because they felt like it

they needed to get a pilot and crew to another location.....

dughhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh


197 posted on 04/14/2017 3:03:55 PM PDT by Mr. K (***THERE IS NO CONSEQUENCE OF OBAMACARE REPEAL THAT IS WORSE THAN KEEPING IT ONE MORE DAY***)
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To: Mr. K

No sale. What you don’t get is that unless the plane is on fire or he is threatening the safety of the flight, calling out the goon squad is way off limits. He is a paying customer merely insisting on the service he paid for.

No reasonable business goes about bloodying customers in that situation.


198 posted on 04/14/2017 3:15:45 PM PDT by hopespringseternal
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To: hopespringseternal

what is it you cannot understand? There are DOT regulations and actual LAWS that say they have to get pilots where they are needed. It does not say “unless a paying customer has that seat”

Do you not understand that HUNDREDS of people might be stranded if they don’t have a pilot at their destination? And it is not poor planning- they can’t control the weather.

It is against the law for them to screw up air traffic (oh wait’ it DOES say unless you have a paying customer ... then it’s OK to strand hundreds more...)


199 posted on 04/14/2017 3:23:02 PM PDT by Mr. K (***THERE IS NO CONSEQUENCE OF OBAMACARE REPEAL THAT IS WORSE THAN KEEPING IT ONE MORE DAY***)
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To: LibertyOh
The local airport “police” did not understand their limitations on what authority they had.

Do you chase ambulances in your spare time?

200 posted on 04/14/2017 4:12:39 PM PDT by itsahoot (As long as there is money to be divided, there will be division.)
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