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To: Mrs. Don-o

If Mary was without sin as some believe, then Jesus could not be her Savior because she would have had nothing to be saved from. Throughout history, God has selected mortal, sinful men to carry out his plan, and Mary was greatly favored to be the mother of Jesus. But Mary was not a goddess, and needed the same grace for her salvation that we require.


184 posted on 04/01/2017 5:00:35 PM PDT by Always A Marine
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To: Always A Marine
Deliver me from mine enemies, O my God: defend me from them that rise up against me. Deliver me from the workers of iniquity, and save me from bloody men. For, lo, they lie in wait for my soul: the mighty are gathered against me; not for my transgression, nor for my sin, O Lord. They run and prepare themselves without my fault: awake to help me, and behold. Thou therefore, O Lord God of hosts, the God of Israel, awake to visit all the heathen: be not merciful to any wicked transgressors. Selah. They return at evening: they make a noise like a dog, and go round about the city. Behold, they belch out with their mouth: swords are in their lips: for who, say they, doth hear? 8 But thou, O Lord, shalt laugh at them; thou shalt have all the heathen in derision. Because of his strength will I wait upon thee: for God is my defence. The God of my mercy shall prevent me: God shall let me see my desire upon mine enemies. Slay them not, lest my people forget: scatter them by thy power; and bring them down, O Lord our shield. For the sin of their mouth and the words of their lips let them even be taken in their pride: and for cursing and lying which they speak. Consume them in wrath, consume them, that they may not be: and let them know that God ruleth in Jacob unto the ends of the earth. Selah. And at evening let them return; and let them make a noise like a dog, and go round about the city. Let them wander up and down for meat, and grudge if they be not satisfied. But I will sing of thy power; yea, I will sing aloud of thy mercy in the morning: for thou hast been my defence and refuge in the day of my trouble. Unto thee, O my strength, will I sing: for God is my defence, and the God of my mercy.

Psalms, Catholic chapter fifty nine, Protestant verses one to seventeen,
186 posted on 04/01/2017 5:25:24 PM PDT by af_vet_1981 (The bus came by and I got on, That's when it all began.)
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To: Always A Marine
Thanks, Marine, for your thoughtful response.

"If Mary was without sin as some believe, then Jesus could not be her Savior because she would have had nothing to be saved from."

There are two ways to save somebody from a pit: by pulling them out, or by preventing them from falling into a pit they otherwise would have fallen into.

Mary was saved the second way, in view of her being destined to be the Mother of the Messiah: she was to be the unique and only source of His human nature (since He had only one human parent), so the human nature she passed on to him would have to be complete and unstained by corruption: unwarped by iniquity and the curse.

I can't think of another logical way to interpret the title the Archangel revealed in his greeting: Kecharitomene.

When an angel appeared to Isaiah, it was basically,"Yeah, you DO have unclean lips. If you're going to speak God's words, you need radical cleansing, you need to be purified with a burning coal." But when the Archangel came to Mary to bear the very Word of God within the intimacy of her body, building Himself literally from her substance, there was no hint of such a purification being needed. Just the opposite, he said she was Kecharitomene: the lady who has (already) been filled with grace.

"Throughout history, God has selected mortal, sinful men to carry out his plan."

Exactly true.

"Mary was not a goddess, and needed the same grace for her salvation that we require." Exactly true again. She needed grace. We believe she received it when she needed it: at the beginning of her existence, Day One of her prenatal life.

187 posted on 04/01/2017 5:50:14 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("You shouldn't believe everything you read on the internet." - Abraham Lincoln)
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To: Always A Marine

If Mary was without sin as some believe, then Jesus could not be her Savior because she would have had nothing to be saved from.



Worth shouting from the rooftops!!

216 posted on 04/02/2017 4:35:55 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Always A Marine
If Mary was without sin as some believe, then Jesus could not be her Savior because she would have had nothing to be saved from.



Sinless Mary??
 
 
Luke 2:22-24
 
When the time came for the purification rites required by the Law of Moses, Joseph and Mary took him to Jerusalem to present him to the Lord  (as it is written in the Law of the Lord, “Every firstborn male is to be consecrated to the Lord”),  and to offer a sacrifice in keeping with what is said in the Law of the Lord: “a pair of doves or two young pigeons.”
 

Leviticus 12:7-8
 
Then he shall offer it before the LORD and make atonement for her, and she shall be cleansed from the flow of her blood. This is the law for her who bears a child, whether a male or a female.
'But if she cannot afford a lamb, then she shall take two turtledoves or two young pigeons, the one for a burnt offering and the other for a sin offering; and the priest shall make atonement for her, and she will be clean.'"

217 posted on 04/02/2017 4:36:51 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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