Posted on 03/12/2017 2:31:17 PM PDT by libstripper
Democrats tend to love sneaky lawyer tricks because their side is so good at them. The passage of Obamacare under the Senate rules governing “reconciliation” is the most prominent example of creatively applying the rules to get what they want.
But it turns out that there are some really smart and creative legal minds on the GOP side, and now that the GOP runs the Senate, the sauce for the Democrat goose also flavors the Republican gander, if that isn’t too disagreeable an abuse of metaphorical license. Ted Cruz is one such legal mind; in the words of legendary Harvard Law School Professor Alan Dershowitz, “…one of the best students I ever had.”
(Excerpt) Read more at americanthinker.com ...
Republican cowards have hidden behind mere threats of Democrat filibusters for too long. Make them do it, and then vote when their tantrum is over.
Yes, just a little spine is all it takes to succeed. They need to show us they meant their campaign promises. That they are working for the electorate and not themselves.
It’s called the filibuster rule and has been in place since the founding of the republic.
Without 60 votes for ending debate, there is no vote to follow.
I don’t think you read my post. The majority, if it actually cares to win, may call the minority’s bluff and make it conduct the threatened filibuster. And Rule XIX provides a way to shorten a filibuster if it is actually attempted. Once a filibuster ends, whether by exhaustion or by the Two Speech Rule, the senate may then proceed to a majority vote. Call their bluff!
Agree completely. But the past is the past. It seems that Trump and Cruz understand that. So too should their supporters.
That annoys the public and doesn’t work well. It holds up legislation on everything else and allows for Obamacare to function while the republicans get tied up.
The filibustering senator can hand off speech to a colleague who can hand off to a colleague ad nauseam.
If it was a successful ploy, it would have been used hundreds of times successfully. It is not successful. It is the filibuster that is the winning ploy.
I don’t think we are getting the whole story. Let’s give President Trump the opportunity to play HIS hand himself. I believe our President can be trusted to do the right thing.
Just look how quickly ISIS is being destroyed .. for example.
Now - Phase 1 will end Obamacare. The Senate rules for reconcilation with a Budget require what is being done to enable ending Obamacare with just 51 votes. Any other technique would allow filibusters and require 60 votes. No Democrat will vote for repeal.
Sit tight and let the system work. Investigate yourself and you will understand.
Make them actually do the filibuster.
The GOP always folds at the threat of a filibuster.
That is the standard GOP excuse for losing when it wants to lose, and a fairy modern practice. In the "old days" when the parties actually disagreed, the threat of a filibuster had to be carried out. With the advent of the UniParty, the mere threat of filibuster was all the charade required. And to your first point, it is the minority's actual filibuster which holds the senate hostage and tends to annoy the public.
The filibustering senator can hand off speech to a colleague who can hand off to a colleague ad nauseam.
Tedious it is, but "ad nauseam" it is not. Please refer to Senate Rule XIX, known as the "Two Speech Rule."
If it was a successful ploy, it would have been used hundreds of times successfully. It is not successful. It is the filibuster that is the winning ploy.
If the leaderships of both parties were not beholden to the UniParty, we would see actual filibusters on important matters. Some might even work, but most would ultimately fail. The truth is that Washington hasn't seen a real filibuster in many years, because the UniParty rigs the game against honest real, uncamoflaged accountability.
I’ve been watching this conversation with some interest. Once a Marine has got the point exactly, but you’ve offered some weak sauce in opposition. Make them filibuster after invoking the clause.
By saying the public would be annoyed you’ve raised possibly the weakest argument I’ve ever heard in opposition to a political ploy.
Always a Marine is, of course, absolutely right.
Cut the Bull####.
But Marine, I would hazard to guess 85 percent of the people don’t know any better than what they are told on the news.
Sad.
I don’t have to argue it. It’s already argued itself over centuries.
There’s are reasons the filibuster has been so successful. All those reasons are the arguments for it.
As we have already seen in the past, democrats don't give a damn about rules if they get in their way. To be worried about what democrats might do in the future is to just completely ignore history. It's the same old pussy-whipped standard GOP mantra of "gosh, I certainly wouldn't want someone to say mean things about me". I, for one, am tired of playing nice with this crap.
BS. If they had done as you suggest, they would have given a middle finger to the filibuster in 2009 and passed Pelosi’s single payer universal healthcare.
But they respected the filibuster and they did use the 60-vote rule in passing ACA.
So you couldn’t be more wrong.
But if Senator Jihad Cruz gets his way, the democrats will have precedent to ignore the filibuster and blow things up in reconciliation because the Cruz senate republicans set the precedent.
Cruz is a loser. Only a fool would follow his lead.
The way forward is to get the democrats in a prosecutorial vice and apply pressure until they fork over the 8 or more votes to pass cloture. Then repeal the damn thing. That’s the winning play.
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And you’re the zero wing Fidel Castro, dead or alive, it all smells the same.
Eat your own snake.
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You should be such a ‘loser.’
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So well thought out. I’ll never understand why people get so invested in politicians.
I don’t tend to respond to folk that display such strong CDS. (Cruz Derangement Syndrome) Not worth the time, as they tend to be establishment apologists, or just loony. I’m not nearly as big a fan of Cruz as I was a couple of years ago, but I still think his head, if not heart is in the right place.
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Cruz is the only one whose head and heart are always in the right place.
Just look at the insane crap he took during the primaries, and still stood solid all the way.
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I’d say that you are absolutely correct.
Trump hasn’t the foggiest idea how to handle congress.
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