you disagree with the Tea Party faction also?
Posted on 12/04/2016 10:22:12 AM PST by Kaslin
During the last election campaign all of a sudden I kept hearing about the Alt-Right. Since I thought I was pretty well read and had never heard of them, I considered them to have the same social relevance as a Miley Cyrus song. I decided to investigate this supposed social phenomenon as soon as the election was over and I was done writing about real issues important to the campaign.
I started by sending emails to mainstream Republicans asking them if they knew anyone who considered themselves members of the Alt-Right. The answer was a universal no. Then I sent emails to my friends who consider themselves conservative Republicans. These are people I respect, but I consider a little more hardcore. The answer was again we don’t know any of these people.
I did get one positive response suggesting I contact Jon Fleischman, someone I have known for 20 years, who in the past five years or so has been the California editor for Breitbart. I have also written for Jon’s publication Flashreport.org.
Jon is Jewish and works for Breitbart which has been accused of being anti-Semitic. Jon is a pretty knowledgeable guy -- doing his own publication and working for Breitbart -- but was totally ignorant about the Alt-Right. I asked him what he knew about Richard Spencer (someone who has gotten recent publicity as supposedly a leader of the Alt-Right) and he said “Who is he?” He then told me that Breitbart has an intercompany communication system called a Slack Network where they exchange ideas about columns and items to be published at Breitbart. He stated “I have never seen once anything indicating any racist or anti-Semitic attitudes, not once.”
I did have an extended email conversation with a gentleman, who said he was a member of the Alt-Right. His name is John Preston though he told me that was a pseudonym. He is with the Council of Conservative Citizens. He stated he used a pseudonym (as most of the people he knows do) because a lot of people who are members of the Alt-Right are afraid of employment discrimination and other factors. John was very forthcoming and seemingly intelligent. He wrote in a very lucid manner and stated he has been part of this movement for 15 years. He also made clear he has no idea how many people are in the Alt-Right because so much of it is underground.
When I asked Preston why he believes his viewpoints are controversial and not just anti-PC, he answered with this statement: “We stick up for white people. We believe white people have interests, too. It's a big taboo to hold that position in our society. Jewish people can advocate for Jewish interests like a pro-Israel foreign policy. Black people can advocate for black interests. There is an LGBT community now with its interests and public policy agenda. White people though ... that's where the line is drawn. It's *racist* to identify as white, to have a positive sense of white identity, and to advocate on behalf of white interests like reduced immigration or, say, law and order. There are groups like the SPLC which exist to get people fired from their jobs for holding our views. That's why our cause is controversial and our movement has been driven underground. I'm not sure how much longer that can continue though.”
When I asked him about immigration he replied, “It's not because we *hate* foreigners - if they stay in their own countries and act like good neighbors, we are fine with them. I don't have a problem with Mexicans in Mexico. I don't mind foreigners coming here and studying at our universities. Personally, I admire Japan more than any other country in the world.”
“It is because we want to maintain the white majority. We don't want to be overwhelmed in our own countries. The cultural, economic and political consequences of mass immigration are disastrous for us. The Left has told us for 20 years now that White Christian America is being overthrown and washed away by their ‘ascendant majority.’ We take them at their word, believe that it is not in our interests to allow this to happen, and we are determined to stop it.”
I will leave that for you the reader to characterize. This is not necessarily representative of all thought from the people who call themselves the Alt-Right. I will say that he is correct that is not acceptable thought in most mainstream circles today. And I will say that I don’t agree with his positions.
Yes, it is racially biased toward people of European heritage, and some people believe that they cannot be prejudiced against them because of the historical fact that whites have been the majority in the United States. Some analyses have shown that it will not be long before white people are no longer a majority in America.
I am not going to dismiss the fact that there are bigots and anti-Semites on both sides of the political spectrum in this country. This is a country of about 325 million people and there are a lot of people who believe weird things. There are people who think graffiti is art. There are people who think Rap music has some social redemption. I live with that every day. This is a free country and people are free to think really stupid thoughts as long as they don’t act out on those stupid thoughts in a violent manner -- you know, like the “protesters” in Portland.
One political party does everything it can to segregate voters by identity group: Black, Hispanic, Gay, Asian, One-eyed monsters etc. Then those people who dislike those groups will identify naturally with the other political party simply because it doesn’t identify potential voters by groups, but simply suggests policy ideas that will hopefully benefit all.
If fringe people identify with the Republicans, then their candidates must spend their day disavowing ever-stupid thing that come out of these people’s mouths. And if Republicans don’t disavow them quickly enough and with the “right words,” the disavowing is discounted. Nice game the Dems and their friends in the press have going here.
I have no idea really who these people in the Alt-Right are and neither do the people I know who have been involved in Republican politics for many years. That includes people who I consider -- and even they themselves would consider -- pretty hardcore conservatives. To me identifying the people who are actually with the Alt-Right with the Republicans is akin to identifying Hillary Clinton with the Communist Party of America who did endorse her.
This is the United States of America; we are either a center-right nation (which I believe we are) or a center-left nation to which we veer occasionally. But extremism has no relevance on the left or the right of this country. So stop trying to pin extremist on either party. It is unbecoming.
I am glad to see a younger group get it. Sounds like they’re pretty solid. One area of concern is the idea an Islamic person can be a solid citizen. My final decision is still out on that. If a person is Islamic, their teachings do not mesh with ours at all. They should move outside if Islam.
I’m a pretty much live and let live guy. I have no problem with other religions as long as they are not colonialist, but Islam obviously is. They wish to change us to be them.
That’s not what this nation is all about. They change to be part of us.
As for homosexuals, I revert to the same live and let live line. I do not want homosexual singled out for persecution. On the other hand, I do not view homosexual households to be the same as heterosexual ones when it comes to kids.
The nation as a whole has a vested interest in seeing children raised in a heterosexual man/woman home. Kids need that to be fully healthy.
I agree with you there. (probably)
He's a fellow traveler but bumps heads with the alt-right quite a bit.
you disagree with the Tea Party faction also?
There are other new movements in the right that over-lap with the alt-right but the core of alt-right is white identarianism. If you try to dilute that message, they will very quickly put you in your place. Additionally, they don't give a rat's ass if you call them racist.
Before judging them, remember these are kids that grew up in this mess of a multicultural society, have been minorities and, many times, faced violence and osctracism in their schools. They are displaced in their own country and are plenty pissed about it. (particularly at baby boomers who they see as allowing this to happen)
Oh, I agree when it comes to Muslims. To be a good Muslim, you must want sharia—and ultimately conquest—for the US. No thanks. I only used that example to illustrate that if you want to be treated like royalty by an Alt-righter, all you have to do is say, ‘I’m here legally, I voted Trump—MAGA!’ They’ll love you like a brother.
I’m a Christian, so the national slide toward Sodom and Gamorrah troubles me to the core. Without God’s blessing you have nothing...and God doesn’t bless perversion.
On the upside, we have something Sodom and Gamorrah didn’t have: tens of thousands of Christians praying to God daily. May He hear and bless our prayers.
Indeed they do. Every other group has an interest and in fact specific political representation.
That has not been my experience with the Alt-right at all. The media focuses exclusively on the fraction of Alt-righters that promotes whiteness, but they are the minority.
Generally no. I do not see them seeking to declare themselves to be a better brand of Conservative. And through conversation, I don’t believe Alt-right does either.
I would encourage you to read some of the rest of the thread.
I think the conversation drifted in a direction that you will like.
Allowed? LOL
I hate to break it to them, but we have been subjected to the very same things.
I do mind being called a racist. I have never in my life wanted to see someone treated differently based on race, and I try very hard not to every do it myself. So I’ll challenge anyone who tries that noise, to prove it or accept that they were lying.
Baby Boomers don’t control the universities.
I do want Trump to take action to get our universities and colleges back to a situation where there is political diversity on their campuses. It needs to be extended down to grades K-12 too.
The Left has a lock on these public institutions and treats them like a political resource.
That needs to end.
Remind these folks that Trump is the first time in a generation where we have had any chance to address some issues like illegal immigration and education.
We can recognize problems, but if neither party will field a candidate that expresses our views, we are powerless to vote for one that does.
Thanks for your comments.
Thank you. I agree with those thoughts, and appreciate where you agreed with mine.
I firmly believe God is listening and moving on our behalf as a nation.
That means that He must recognize something worth salvaging here.
To God be the glory...
Amen!
Read their publications--Takimag, V-dare, Daily Stormer, The Right Stuff, Right on Radio--the key component is white identity. What exactly this means is still debated but at bare minimum they wish to see a return to pre-1965 demographics.
There are cross over groups--neoreactionary, nativism, basic American nationalism, anti-feminism, traditionalism.
There is a large debate right now over what is considered alt-light and alt-right with many prominent personalities having some public clashes.
Please go back to post 14 and read the link. I could never explain it as succinctly and authoritatively as Watson. I can, however, tell you from firsthand experience that he’s right.
Because someone understands what it is going to mean to live in a white minority America does not mean they fester in dark corners of the internet. It means they understand where this ends.
The term alt-right is silly and the juvenile trolls who use it often hurt their own cause, but there certainly is a need to differentiate authentic conservatives concerned with Western culture and the National Question from about 80-90% of the Republican Party and its talking heads.
What I am saying is that by far the largest segment of the Alt-right is unfocused on whiteness. As an example, take The_Donald subreddit—which is 100% Alt-right. It has 317,000 members, and is growing at close to a thousand a day. It focuses not at all on whiteness.
If you can show me a whiteness-oriented Alt-right site with 300,000-plus members, that is growing at anything close to a thousand a day, I will stand corrected.
The Donald is NOT an alt-right subreddit. Yes, many "alt-right people" spend time and post there but it's a mix of different political thoughts. Heck, even some Freepers who don't understand what the alt-right is post and lurk there.
There IS an alt-right subreddit. It has about 10k posters. In fact, Richard Spencer (who coined the term altright with his prior publication called AltRight) is doing an AMA on Reddit this week.
Taken from the AltRight subreddit:
What is the Alt-Right?
The Alt-Right, unlike the dominant ideology of the 20th Century (Liberalism/Conservatism), examines the world through a lens of realism. Rather than continue to look at the world through the ideological blinders that Liberalism imposes in its dogmatic evangelism of the Equalitarian religion, we prefer to look & examine social relations & demographics from a perspective of what's real. Thus, racial & sexual realism is a key component of the Alt-Right - perhaps the key component that ties the diverse factions within it together.
Another core principle of the Alt-Right is Identitarianism. Identitarianism is the prioritization of social identity, regardless of political persuasion. Thus, the Alt-Right promotes White Identity and White Nationalism.
And if anyone is uncomfortable with that, they simply do NOT care.
i've read it all... and i don't believe the Tea Party nor the Alt-Right claim to be a better brand of conservative, i DO believe they claim to be a better brand of Republican than GOPe!!! and i think 99% of FReepers are too
This is like a denominational argument. Two groups both claim to be, for example, the only ‘real’ Evangelicals.
The truth is, one group does not get to dictate to the other. The Whiteness group can pout all day that they are the ONLY Alt-righters. It doesn’t make it true. Neither does your contention that some Freepers post at The_Donald mean that the site itself isn’t Alt-right. If an atheist attends a church service, it doesn’t mean the congregation ceases to be Christian.
I spend ~an hour a day on The_Donald. They fully and enthusiastically embrace the designation, Alt-right. It’s who they are. For some reason, you can’t accept that. You want to dictate that only a piddly little identity group can rightfully claim that title.
You don’t have that right or that power. If an energized, dynamic, growing and dedicated group says they are Alt-righters, you’ll simply have to broaden your definition. For example, I don’t deny that your micro-subreddit is Alt-right. Like Paul Watson, I acknowledge the obvious: that there are two types of Alt-righters. One focuses on whiteness and the other doesn’t. You may not like the fact that the group unfocused on whiteness calls itself the Alt-right, but that personal reaction changes nothing.
You have a very narrow, rigid POV. I can’t change it. But there’s something you can’t change, either. It’s the fact that the vast majority of high-energy, passionate and almost uniquely motivated group at The_Donald call themselves the Alt-right. When Paul Watson posted his tweet about the two Alt-rights, The_Donald users couldn’t feature it or upvote it fast enough. He spoke for them. And you don’t.
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