Posted on 09/30/2016 4:32:46 AM PDT by expat_panama
...Trump called the trade agreement between Canada, Mexico and the United States “the single worst trade deal ever approved in this country” during the first presidential debate against Hillary Clinton. Earlier this year, Bernie Sanders leveled a similar criticism, calling it disastrous when debating the former secretary of date...
...But whether NAFTA has been good or bad for the U.S. economy depends largely on who you ask...
...NAFTA “means jobs. American jobs, and good-paying American jobs. If I didn't believe that, I wouldn't support this agreement,” then-President Clinton said in 1993.
Fast forward more than two decades later and NAFTA is rallying cry for those who believe free trade has done more for other countries than for American workers...
...Trump has promised to renegotiate NAFTA’s terms “to get a better deal for our workers,” according to his campaign site. If that doesn’t work, he vows to withdraw from the agreement altogether.
Clinton doesn’t address NAFTA specifically on her campaign site, but promises to “reject trade agreements that don’t meet “her high standard...
...According to one widely cited analysis, NAFTA has been a bad deal...
...The late ‘90s was a period of strong economic growth...
...if the U.S. economy did so well after NAFTA, is there any reason to think the trade agreement was harmful?...
...The report questioned whether the gains in trade under NAFTA were enough to offset the struggles of displaced workers and recommended that future agreements include stronger provisions to protect U.S. workers exposed to foreign competition.
But it may be too late for those Americans who have already lost their jobs to overseas competition and have been unable to enjoy the fruits of the larger and more efficient economy. Those workers are the ones who may use their votes this November as a referendum on free trade.
(Excerpt) Read more at thefiscaltimes.com ...
You are absolutely correct in your post #14!
I also remember the boasting about all the new jobs created back then. They were service industry minimum wage jobs! In other words, they were slave wages which couldn’t even pay the rent and buy the groceries, much less keep the big box stores in business. They led to an increase in personal bankruptcies which eventually forced Obama care on us...which is a disaster...because the slaves couldn’t afford medical care either.
I remember the ‘’house of cards’’ and the impact it had on the financial lives of those around me in my community.
The idea of NAFTA was to bring up the standard of living in the poorest nations and even if ours declined a little bit, things would eventually level off so that poverty would be reduced world wide, and then we could all benefit financially.
It hasn’t worked that way as history proves. As Trump has pointed out several times, our standards are now third world nation status compared to the rest of the world. The first impact is always noticed in the inner cities first. But NOW it’s seen in middle America as those beautiful homes people bought during the house of cards years...crumble, slowly due to abandoned mortgages, lack of paint, rickety fences and fewer flowers and bushes.
Inner cities have traditionally been the poorer part of town, but now they’re a war zone.
Thank-you Mrs. Clinton. We ain’t seen nuttin’ yet, have we?
A couple of analogies I think are revealing and interesting. I think in a Tsun Tsu sense it does us little good to bemoan the past couple decades but it is imperative we understand what actually happened there without being propagandized. The analogy I first would point to is Kurt Vonnegut’s money river. While Kurt Vonnegut was a pure psych job and even his own family members admit he was a terrible person, his insight is funny while being very penetrating. If you have never read Vonnegut, do so.
Another analogy I encountered recently here on FreeRepublic that really says what I believe to be very prescient succinctly. As Vonnegut said, the real money is to be made by interpositioning one’s self between two parties that are exchanging massive sums. Well we currently have a situation where a massive amount of wealth is owned by a whole bunch of “middle class” folks in the US. The global intellectual elite know that if they can cause that wealth to “move” (and this is the part that is pure genius) they can “surf” that Tsunami and skim BILLIONS easily. All they have to do is cause that wealth to exit the US.
In other words, the globalist intend to shake down the US citizen. Now this is not really news to us here at FreeRepublic but we rarely see the fact conceptualizer clearly and succinctly. Soros and friends intend to create a Tsunami of wealth, 10 to 20 Trillion to exit the US and they intend to “surf” that Tsunami.
I don’t know if there is a way to stop it at this point or not or even how to go about trying but there it is. In the Tsun Tsu sense, there, gentlemen, is the battlefield.
And that was an incredible boom for which Slick Willie deserves no credit. Algore gets all the credit for that.
But it was an incredible boom to the economy as every variety of communications company began building the infrastructure to offer internet service, plus the permanent jobs created and the tens of millions of consumers who began to subscribe to internet service, and all the ecommerce that was created as a result.
All having nothing to do with anything Slick, or Algore did. And it was only partially a bubble as much of it became a longer term, growing part of our economy.
No. Keep reading.
Go back and read about Global Crossing. It may cause you to rethink the benefit of technology infrastructure. I will not deny the benefit of technology but I would submit the corruption it created for which we are still suffering negated any benefit. Solyndra? McAwful’s golf cart company? I could go on and on.
Think about it. Benefits to the economy provided by innovation are small increments that have to accumulate over time. How much progress is destroyed by a Global Crossing or Solyndra? Small, slow, cumulative gains are destroyed in a flash by corruption. Systemic corruption, which, right up to this moment has not been reigned in.
Tariffs are to a globalist what crosses are to a vampire.
The North American Free Trade Agreement: Ronald Reagan's Vision Realized
'...The NAFTA also will offer Americans cheaper goods, and increase U.S. exports by making them more affordable for the rest of the world. Moreover, it will create an estimated 200,000 new jobs for Americans, reduce illegal immigration from Mexico, help tackle drug trafficking, strengthen Mexican democracy and human rights, and serve as a model for the rest of the world.'
“...free trade has done more for OTHER countries than for American workers...”
I’m in that camp. But, the Socialists love nothing more than dragging America DOWN to the level of the undeveloped countries.
Of course, THEIR assets are well protected/hidden; we SCHMUCKS need to just Man Up and take it in the shorts, I guess.
Grrrrrrr!
Global Crossings infrastructure is still in use and what does Solyndra have to do with the growth of the internet and the offshoot businesses?
My point was that it takes but a moment to negate the positive impact of innovation.
Well, you failed to make your point.
Well, let’s take Solyndra, for example. Any competent physicist could have told you there was NO WAY solar panels that were truly economical could be produced 8 years ago. Nevertheless, this company was created with no other intention than “farming” Federal Grants. Last I heard that cost the economy half a billion. How much improvement in the economy has to take place to recover that loss? The time periods don’t correspond but the analogy is still correct, “How many secretaries typing documents at 80 wpm do we have to lay off to realize the benefit of word processing?”. And how many years will we have to take to accrue that benefit? How many other companies have to accrue small, incremental benefits of innovation over what period of time to fill the crater left by one Solyndra.
There are large numbers of business failures every year, thousands of them large and small. Most are privately financed and some received government grants or loan guarantees, and some involved corruption. Those failures cost the economy billions per year, but they hardly negate the benefit of the new ventures that succeed, and those that have been going concerns for significant periods of time.
I think you’re trying to attach far too much significance to a few high profile business failures.
I believe in “true capitalism” there is such a thing as creative destruction. Buggy whips, secretaries typing, etc. Things like Global Crossing and Solyndra don’t qualify. Someone who walks into a bank with a gun is a greater benefit to the economy. At least there is some hope the robber can be caught and not only some resources be recovered but his behavior comes to at least a temporary cessation. The folks who do things like Solyndra, etc. (think Corzine) do not get punished (which would deter others as well as stop him) the resources aren’t recovered, and the success they enjoy motivates others and they move on to the next thing.
I would submit that what I am describing is EXACTLY why the only demographic segment of society that has enjoyed a real growth period for two decades has been the one percent. Or “the system is rigged”.
You're confused. Reducing tax revenue to the government while reducing government control of the economy reduces the role of government. Allowing consumers to pick winners and losers by executing hundreds of millions of transactions in their best interest is much preferred to your vision where government bureaucrats pick winners and losers.
Big government conservatives don't understand economics.
What other ideas of Marx and Lenin do you support, comrade?
I doubt it will become a habit.
Yeah, I’ve seen that before. All of our jobs went to Mexico, but the Mexicans came here to take our jobs. Disconnect.
Thanks. Looks like the whining is fierce today. lol
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