Defying the odds: How to flip a Trump voter using pure logic [are you convinced now?]

Salon ^ | SEP 25, 2016 | ERICA ETELSON

[Antioch]

The only way to talk someone out of voting for Trump is to stop trying to talk them out of voting for Trump. To all my fellow progressives who’ve been busily browbeating supporters of this dangerous demagogue, you’re invited to become an early adopter of a far more rewarding, non-adversarial approach called “powerful non-defensive communication.”

According to most commentators, the prototypical Trump supporter is an uneducated, narrow-minded bigot with legitimate grievances against the faltering economy which Trump has skillfully alchemized into violent rage toward non-whites, Muslims and successful women. The Trump voter is a patriarchal authoritarian primed since early childhood to fearfully submit to a bullying father who always knows best. In the circular logic of the authoritarian mindset, might makes right — and so Trump, as the strongman, is necessarily the winner in a competition against losers.

[Rebelbase]

The author sounds perfectly normal coming from the culture of beta-male, metro/homo/lesbian sexual, weak, fearful, dependent, entitled, self-righteous, liberal feminist idiology/perspective.

[PapaBear3625]

I have a friend who is getting unhinged that I am voting for Trump. After a few go-arounds, I realized discussing it is a fruitless endeavor. We are speaking different languages. He is shocked that I am voting for a so-called hateful, racist, misogynist. I am shocked that this American-born boy’s basic ideals are ground so far into socialism and anti-Americanism. He is a middle-aged business owner, but has drunk wide and deep into Salon and Huffpo, and swallowed all their lies.

It's the difference between "ends" and "means". You can debate means. You cannot debate ends.

Two people who share the same ends can talk about various means of accomplishing those ends, and have rational discussions about whether "A" would be more effective in accomplishing their shared goals than "B".

But when you do NOT have shared goals, then debate is fruitless. I have a goal of seeing my kids and grand-kids live happy and fruitful lives, and I will support measures which benefit them, even if those measures result in increased "inequality". I care more for my own, than I care for strangers. And for those who are hostile to the welfare of my own, I care nothing at all.

To a proper Leftist, if he is to be deemed a "good person", then he should promote measures which "reduce inequality", and not care if those measures disadvantage his own.

[stocksthatgoup]

“dangerous demagogue” ? Liberals backing up the honey wagon to your front door. Laugh at them

[Dr. Sivana]

Bullying:

Have you ever noticed Trump attacking people’s looks or intelligence if they ask him a question he doesn’t want to answer or if they disagree with him?

You left out calling them "losers" or "failures". What he doesn't do is immediately call his opponent a racist.

Did you see the video of Trump mocking the disabled reporter? In the same manner that he mocked Cruz and others, because he is NOT a professional impressionist?

What was your reaction? People like you would use it as a phony excuse to oppose him.

What would you say to your child if s/he treated a classmate like that?If he knew the child was disabled. "That's inappropriate." If he didn't know? "He's disabled. That's inappropriate. That's wrong like the time you snuck money out of my wallet or lied about your homework, or pretended to be sick.

Do you remember when Trump said that if Hillary Clinton gets to pick her judges, there’s “nothing you can do, folks” and then said, “although the Second Amendment people, maybe there is, I don’t know.” Did you think that sounded at all like a veiled threat or not? No. An admission of reality.

Do you think anyone out there might take that as an invitation to shoot her even if that’s not how he meant it? Not yet.

Would you feel different or the same if he said something like that as president?
Of course not, 'cause then HE'd be picking the judges.

I read about a girls’ soccer game where the home team fans were yelling, “Build that wall!” at the other team, which was mostly Latina and black, and the girls were so upset they weren’t able to finish the game. How do you feel about fans shouting “build that wall” to kids on the other team? If Trump were president, do you think there would be more or fewer of these kinds of incidents?When the wall is built. There will be no interest in shouting 'Build the Wall'.

Bigotry:

How do you react when Trump takes positions that ban entire groups of people from being in the United States, like sending all Mexican immigrants back to Mexico and allowing no Muslims to enter the United States? That's not his position. You left out the word "illegal", and "alien" would be more accurate than immigrant. Until you stop using words in a disingenuous manner, there's not much point to this conversation. BTW, where SHOULD Mexicans who are here illegally be sent, Somalia?!

For someone who is very educated, you could ask: Do you think Trump ever suggests solutions, like building a wall to keep immigrants out, because it’s a simple solution and it gives him a way to avoid discussing the more complicated political and economic issues we face as a country?No more than any other politician, like those who sum of 20,000 pages of diocuments in two words, NAFTA and OBAMACARE.

What’s your reaction to neo-Nazis calling Trump their “fearless leader”? I am as non-plussed by it as I hope you are by the Communist Party endorsing Hillary Clinton.

Why do you think they’re saying that?(If you need a refresher on white supremacists’ love affair with Trump, check out the timeline compiled by the Southern Poverty Law Center.)The SPLC lists "The Remnant" traditional Catholic newspaper as a hate organization. They are run by bigots.

Have you seen Trump do or say anything you believe was insulting to women?No more than Hillary Clinton has insulted my wife and daughters with her attitude against ALL non-feminists, and by her enabling her pervert husband. If so, to what degree do you think that would matter if he were president? (Note how this is different from asking, “How do you feel when Trump insults women’s appearances?” which is more leading.)

There is no shortage of people like you to yelp about it, and the 90% of the time it is about something picayune, Trump will call you out on it. The other 10%, a big improvement over Obama or Clinton, who have contempt for the women I love.

[Windflier]

Don’t ever give up your guns, people. Commies like Erika will fill mass graves with American patriots, if we ever do.

[chesley]

One thing I’ve noticed over the years, liberals love “complexity”, “nuance”, and “narrative”, because they can then bury the truth in a Gordian knot of lies, obfuscation, and evasions (the technical term is “bull...t”)

But we all know how to untie the Gordian knot. And Trump, whatever his personal and political faults, is making the attempt.

I didn’t vote for him in the primary, and I’m disappointed in the man I did vote for, although I read last night that he’s come around. But I’m on the Trump Train now.

[mjp]

the prototypical Trump supporter is

an uneducated, narrow-minded bigot with legitimate grievances against the faltering economy which Trump has skillfully alchemized into violent rage toward non-whites, Muslims and successful women.

someone who actually understands the nature of the benefits capitalism, the nature of the harm of mohammedanism, and the benefits of obedience to the immigration laws.

[ManHunter]

“According to most commentators, the prototypical Trump supporter is an uneducated, narrow-minded bigot...”

This “narrative” never ceases to absolutely incense me to the point that I want to throttle a liberal - literally.

Having seen many comments by liberals/Hillary supporters on a number of different sites, I’m continually amazed at their almost universal inability to spell the most basic of words and apply simple grammar rules. And we’re supposed to be the uneducated slobs...

[Windflier]

“...these people are not even Authorities on Psychology!”

Yeah? Well, you’re just a rage filled, bigoted, uneducated, deplorable, Trump voting hawg farmer!

How’s that? Did I get the libtard ‘nuance’ about right?

[publius911]

Defying the odds: How to flip a Trump voter using pure logic

According to most commentators, the prototypical Trump supporter is an uneducated, narrow-minded bigot with legitimate grievances against the faltering economy which Trump has skillfully alchemized into violent rage toward non-whites, Muslims and successful women.

That "Headline" has almost certainly been augmented; makes the article non-sensical.

Did anyone manage to get the missing rest of the article?

You know, the promised part about "...using pure logic?"

LOL!
And then there's the lazy ignorant man's "authority" forthe pure logic claim, the mythical ...most commentators..."

Reading crap like that is a dirty job, but somebody's got to do it.

The "writer's" delusion is breathtaking...

[publius911]

Let’s see, I am a woman. I am educated—two post graduate degrees. I am not a racist. And I’m all in for Trump.

That brings to mind the image of a damaged two-year old, flailing at its parent in a totally ineffectual hissy fit.

"alchemized?" The "made-up word" attack?
Seriously?

[publius911]

"Trump supporter: My dad always said, “Give a man a fish and he’ll fish for a day, teach a man to fish and he’ll fish forever.”

There you have the mental midget, ERICA ETELSON's made up conversation with a Trump supporter she is trying to "convert... enlighten..." and can't even get the simple classic allegory straight.

Where does the Southern Law Poverty Center find these posturing ignorant children?

[jazminerose]

No, sadly. They are an MS in psychology and JD in law. Total macroagressions.

[AFreeBird]

Psyc & law? Wow, that could go either way.

If you think little Johnny can identify himself as a fluffy little bunny with a pink bow, and that the constitution and laws are malleable; You’re golden!

If you think little Johnny indentifying himself as the above, might point to psychological issues, and that the constitution and laws having meaning and should be enforced; You’re a bad person, and racist, and a _______phobe. Oh, and uneducated.

[jazminerose]

It’s the latter.

I understand the pathology of liberalism and the importance of the Constitution. I spent a full year in law school studying the Constitution. All of the crap that liberals swear is in there isn’t. There is no constitutional right to abortion or an education.

I have no liberal friends.

[right way right]

I use this logic.
Hillary has failed at all things except latching onto a good political snake, then carpetbagged herself into the senate playing the game of pay to play and then a stint extorting a Secretary of state position, more pay for play and then bought a nomination.

She has done nothing positive for this country...not one frigging thing.

Next, I ask for an example of a great accomplishment by Hillary that has helped this nation in any way.

[AFreeBird]

Yea, me too. One of my oldest and dearest friends went full on libtard on me. We don’t really speak anymore.

[M Kehoe]

Did Salon’s editors check to see if ERICA ETELSON got her copy from the Mook at Hillary’s campaign?

5.56mm