well then, f**k you John
Posted on 09/14/2016 7:13:23 AM PDT by C19fan
Pledging allegiance to a nation UNDER GOD is in effect pledging allegiance TO God.
I don’t see a problem with it as long as the pledge puts us under the sovereignty of God.
Also... allegiance describes a relationship which is nothing in comparison to the relationship we enter into with God.
Key concept that people are not getting here.
Flags represent governments. Pledging allegiance to the flag is pledging allegiance to the government, when the fundamental fact of a representative system is that the allegiance is owed the other way around.
The government owes its allegiance to you. NOT vice versa. The Pledge completely inverts the correct and lawful relationship between master (us) and servant (the government) - and this is no accident, given the intent of its author.
Bingo Earl. "...and to the REPUBLIC FOR WHICH IT STANDS" !
Is English that hard to interpret??
Sometimes people who believe in Sola Scriptura, i.e. the Bible only, get so deep into the weeds that they can't see the beautiful field that contains the weed. JMHO.
This is another Catholic view.
“Camden Diocese will suspend players who don’t stand for anthem.”
“According to the letter from Mary P. Boyle Superintendent of Schools, dated Sept. 2, “Failure to demonstrate appropriate respect will result in suspension from play (2 games) or dismissal from the team for subsequent offenses.”
No, flags represent countries.
the fundamental fact of a representative system is that the allegiance is owed the other way around.
Hence the term "republic" and the proviso "under God".
The pledge is not to the government. We'll agree to disagree. It is a pledge to what the flag is supposed to represent.
I can foresee the day where giving the pledge - to the flag, not the government - and including the words "under God" would make you a public enemy.
Something to consider. If a Christian can no longer pledge allegiance to the flag, can he in good conscience serve in the military? A few more years going down the road we have gone down, that day may come.
Flags represent COUNTRIES not government. When you see the flags at an Olympics do you think of the government of those countries or what country it represents? So when we pledge to our flag we are pledging to our home country. "...of the United States of America and to the Republic FOR WHICH IT STANDS." !
Give to Caesar what is Caesar's and to God what is God's
Mark 12:17
Government is a God ordained institution. Christianity teaches that the state serves a divinely appointed and divinely defined task, although it is not in itself divine. Its authority is legitimate, though limited.
A large chub of baloney!
I stand corrected. I should not have said that the Pledge is a pledge to the government. I would however contend that there are a significant number of people who do not make that distinction.
My point really is that based on what I’ve read about the Founders, they would not have condoned a pledge of any sort. Wasn’t it Jefferson who considered himself a Virginian first and an American second?
well then, f**k you John
“It might be better to pledge allegiance to a Constitution”
I’d like to entertain you all with my story of how I went from a libertarian to a republican.
I was 24 years old. After working for a few dot-coms I made a pretty good fortune. I lived and worked in Connecticut.
Connecticut is a dirty place. It’s almost completely paved. There really isn’t anything beautiful in CT. NY is a bit nicer, but NY to me is where wealth went, and I didn’t have enough wealth. Plus I owned guns so NY, MA, RI were right out for me.
I worked all the time. Everyday. I saw plain skies of mostly cloud cover, the sound of a highway at every moment and streetlights. I never really saw “the milky way”.
I moved to Colorado. I drove across the US. I got past Columbus OH and started to see America. It never made sense to me why someone would sign up for the military and put their life on the line to save such a wretched place as America until I actually got to experience it. During that trip, I became a republican.
I had always loved my rights and freedoms, I had always spoken out for the 2nd amendment and other amendments. But I was severely jaded by what the American Experience was for me. I used to pledge to the flag, but when I actually saw the rest of America.. the “Fly over”... I was totally hooked. Like, in love.
It became clear to me why this must be protected at all costs. It became clear to me that choices and love and compulsion are very different things. Even if Hillary were in office, even if Obama were to seize control, even if the US hunted republicans and patriots, even if the UN were granted full access to police the subjects..
... Even if my neighbors were to yell out “LOOK! Behind that tree ! GET HIM” I would still recite this:
I pledge allegiance,
To the flag,
Of the United States of America.
And to the republic,
For which it stands,
One nation,
Under God
Indivisible
With liberty
And justice for all.
I say, believe and feel this as I do during my prayers. I don’t think of the president when I do this, I don’t think of the treasury and I don’t think of the millions of people seeking to persecute me. Just as I don’t think of those who would persecute me for my prayers.
It’s between me and that flag. My prayers are between me and my God. Just as the Pope doesn’t even put a scratch in my relationship with the Trinity - Any communist thug isn’t going to put a scratch on my relationship with my country.
BINGO!
So - a "Christian" who picks and chooses which things Jesus said to obey?
(See my tag line)
Yes he did. It is not a false idolization to pledge an allegiance to a nation. As long as that nation doesn’t demand you break God’s laws, you’re good to go.
Even then, a nation can be mostly good, and still blow it on an issue or two.
As long as it doesn’t push the point to a penalty of personal destruction (as in financial or well being), or your death, the nation can still be mostly good.
I reverence God above everything else, and find it perfectly acceptable to swear allegiance to my nation (for me, the United States of America).
Folks, this was written by John Ellis, not C19Fan.
C19Fan only posted the commentary.
Why as a Christian he is so full of himself.
Our government was not given power by Divine Right (of Kings), but rather united one Nation under God.
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