Turkish parliament approves deal ending rift with Israel

Thanks for the history tour. Just finished reading “Birds Without Wings,” a novel by Louis de Bernieres about the life and expulsion of Greeks from Turkey in the time of WW1. Chapter 50, The Exchange, catalogs the many brutalities committed including the Balkan war. I will quote randomly from particularly compelling sentences. After reading this book and what I will quote below, it is clear why the Greek expulsion from Turkey went so badly, and why there is so much bitterness between Greece and Turkey. Also where ISIS learned its many evils.

“Where does it all begin? History has no beginnings, for everything that happens becomes the cause or pretext for what happens next...” Around 1912 is described, “The main tactic was for irregular shock troops...guerrillas, bandits, brigands or liberating heroes, motivated by hatred and the desire for loot (otherwise known as patriotism) to attack villages and force inhabitants on to the roads. Montenegrins devastated Albania. The Turkish refugees of Thrace were driven eastwards by the Greeks, and driven back again by the Bulgarians marching south, and back once more....The Bulgarian army left behind it 80 miles of ruined villages.” Then “Bulgarians, Greeks and Serbians all claimed Macedonia” the later 2 fighting the former and Romania joining the fight. The Ottomans retook Edirne and eastern Thrace while the Christians squabbled. The refugees helped ruin the Ottoman economy, and ruined “the Ottoman Empire’s greatest achievement...which guaranteed religious liberty for all.” “the hell’s broth of religious and nationalist hatred” caused the Balkins to be “irreparably changed for the worse.”

A memory by a novel character (undoubtedly a true type of occurrence and sounding just like ISIS). “It was of a field of stupendous carnage in Thrace in which only one building remained partially intact, and on the wooden door of the building hung a naked little girl who had been crucified and disemboweled.” “this crucifixion of children by Christians was quite a common thing in his experience...”

Some miscellaneous facts. “There were between 1821 and 1913 a prolonged and atrocious holocaust which we have chosen to forget, and from which we have learned absolutely nothing.” In Easter season 1821 “in the name of liberty, the southern Greek Christians tortured and massacred 15,000 Greek Muslim civilians, looted their possessions, and burned their dwellings....In the Peloponnese, many thousands of Muslims, mainly women and children, were rounded up and butchered. Thousands of shrines and mosques were destroyed...” “During the 1820s...20,000 Muslims were expelled from Serbia. In 1875, Orthodox Bosnian Serb Christians began a campaign of assassination against Muslims in general and Ottoman officials in particular. In 1876, Bulgarian Christians massacred an unknown number of peasants of Turkish origin.” In 1877 when the Ottomans refused humiliating concessions imposed by Russia, war was declared. “Using tactics invented for use against Muslims in the Caucasus, Cossacks assisted by Bulgarian revolutionaries and peasants seized all the property of Muslims.” Cossacks would disarm villages, send Bulgarians to slaughter them, obliterate villages with artillery, or sell inhabitants into slavery. “European diplomats recorded that this episode was remarkable for the systematic manner in which new ways were invented to torture women to death as slowly as possible.” A half million Muslim refugees by of all ethnic backgrounds took to the roads driven to and fro by bandits, guerrillas and soldiers. “among these Muslims, almost unnoticed by history, suffered and died the Jews, because the common cry of the liberating heroes...was ‘Jews and Turks Out!’” In 1912 an added technique was “herding Muslims into coffeehouses and barns and then burning them down.” The fact that England and France were allied with enemy Russia explains why Turkey was in WW1 allied with Germany. This also may help explain the current alliance between Turkey and Israel.

And so it continues, but I hope this grim portrayal makes it abundantly clear how and why the horrors of warfare continue in this region today. War is never pretty, and I seem to recall a scene (not knowing if historical or not) in which British troops burned a village in a church in the Revolutionary war. Movie “The Patriot?”

You are correct about Russia allied with Iran and Syria.

These are avowed enemies of Israel, which have only ever sought to destroy Israel and kill the Jewish people, as well as anyone who is friendly toward Israel.

Keep in mind, historically, several Czars (including Czar Nickolas II) and the Soviet Communist severely persecuted Jews. Even under Boris Yeltsin some of the few remaining synagogue’s in Moscow and Russia were eliminated. Although there may be a couple yet symbolically remaining.

There is recent player on the block immediately in this region to consider as well.

Russia has a joint common defense treaty with China, and has given formal approval to China to put ground forces in Syria in the past couple of weeks. Additionally, China is vastly expanding dual purpose military efforts in Iraq and Djibouti at the southern end of the Red Sea.

Regarding Turkey, there may or may not be some back and forth with Ankara, but Turkey appears to be moving much more formally into a Russian alliance, or at least a stronger Russian led geopolitical association. I don’t know the timing, but many analyst do not believe Turkey will remain in NATO.

The Turkish population is almost entirely Muslim, and against Israel.

This becomes a dramatic shift and new defining factor, as Turkey’s recent secular run military was truly more dependable for NATO, and much more likely to refrain from attacking Israel, even while often not helping Israel.

Now however, the secular led Turkish military hierarchy has been replaced (some killed/some imprisoned) with religious Muslims now in control of the Turkish military, while under a much more strict Muslim dictator.

Each of these countries have consistently sought to damage Israel in the UN as well.

All of these factors are real, and Israel cannot afford to fall for (what can only be) an attempt by Ankara to get Israel to soften its strategically defensive stance in the near future.

At the end of the day, this can only be some kind of cruel joke -

“It more often than not was Christians versus Islam+Jews (see the Crusades).”

During the reconquista, the Catholic Spanish Princes and Knights battled frequently against the Muslims and their Jewish allies. An amazing 800 year struggle.

“A lot of Jews were pro-German prior to WWI both in the Middle East and in the U.S. Got that.”

The ever cynical British Empire saw that and was able to bring the Jewish support to their side with the “Balfour Declaration”.

Even more surprising are recent changes to the Saudi-Israel relationship:

“Israel, Saudi Arabia Cooperating to Plan Possible Iran Attack. Saudis would allow Israel use of air space and provide dones, rescue helicopters and tanker planes, report says.”

This whole thing simply cannot be trusted.

As most already know Turkey is almost 98% Muslim, with about 72-73% being Sunni.

Both Sunni and Shiite Muslim nations have called for the destruction of Israel. Some (Iran/Syria) have remained proactive in this endeavor since 1948.

While there has long been much deception and posturing from governments around the world in the ME theater, Erdogan has seemingly taken the deception to the next level, and really appears to be moving into some type of alliance with Russia. We shall see.

While not the most important development, I also believe this will be evidenced at some point by the US moving out of Incirlik Air Base.

At the end of the day, I believe the new budding alliances between Russia, Syria, Turkey, Iran, and possibly Libya (again) are very much strategic and with goal’s, and appear to be countering the US, Saudi-spherical, NATO alliance.

In almost every “axis & allies” alliance structure there are jurisdictions caught in the middle.

In the ME region, as long as Muslims are fighting Muslims, the more secular friendly and democratic governments may benefit to a degree, as they themselves may temporarily not be the focus of larger attacks. However, as the larger alliances become more defined, it can force those not already part of an alliance to take sides (possibly Jordan/Egypt?).

How this plays out is interesting.

Just a few more details to include in the calculus.

To date, Iran, Russia, and China have military personnel on the ground at various points in Iraq. This ostensibly includes 100,000 Iranian soldiers in Iraq. Iranian soldiers have been on the ground in Syria as well. Additionally, while Russia is getting closer to helping Iran finish their nuclear capability, has sold or placed S-300 and S-400 missile systems in Syria and Iran, and has had, for nearly 2 years, an expanded “no fly zone” (reportedly up to 160km wide)

While all of this posturing is taking place, Russia has increased significantly its naval presence in the Black Sea and Mediterranean Sea. While the US has not stopped, Moscow has made it clear it does not want any US Navy in the Black Sea. This is happening at roughly the same time Moscow has increased its naval presence in the Mediterranean to be roughly equal in numbers to all of NATOs naval vessel presence. This is happening at the same time Russia is placing additional infantry and armored divisions on the Ukrainian border, and there are military buildups taking place on both sides all the way to the North Sea.

” an expanded “no fly zone” (reportedly up to 160km wide)”

Meant to say an expanded “no fly zone” (reportedly up to 160km wide) over Tartus, Syria.

This is an example of “the enemy of my enemy” scenario.

There is a real arms race taking place across the greater ME, and Saudi Arabia has been vocal in the past year about not being caught defenseless against Iran’s nuclear capability!

While unlikely to easily happen, it has been widely known and even publicized, Iran wants control of Saudi Arabia.

I believe these two would have a large war in the near future without any other external influence.

Yes, what we are seeing is a great rift within Islam. On one side the Sunni and on the other the Shiite. This conflict is currently the main reason there is a very hot Civil War in Syria that is bringing in the world’s great powers. Many rumors have floated for years that the Saudis already have nuclear weapons - purchased from Sunni majority Pakistan. The external meddling will ensure the war will expand perhaps beyond the Islamic world.

Don’t forget that not all Sunni are of the backward Wahhabi variety. Certainly the ISIL folk are killing plenty of Sunni as well as non Sunni Muslims. There are Druse, Alawite, Sufi, Kurds and others who are not Wahhabists. We must insist that Saudis quite financing those Wahhabist schools that are training grounds for terrorists.

Patriotfury said: "Some (Iran/Syria) have remained proactive in this endeavor since 1948."

No.

Iran recognized Israel defacto in 1949 and maintained close relations and cooperation in all fields (Intelligence, military, economic) until 1979.

Iran is hostile to Israel only since the Revolution 1979... and even this has not prevented pragmatic cooperation between them... for instance against their common foe Saddam Hussein.

Ironically the pro-Israel lobby in the US had no small part in weakening the Shah in the years leading to the Revolution 1978/79. They resented that Imperial Iran was rapidly becoming the favorite US arms receiver and a regional great power... they also were apprehensive of the ramifications for Israel of an regional arms race between Iranians and Arabs.

Syria's main beef with Israel is the occupation of the Golan Heights. Assad in the past has repeatedly hinted that a return of the Golan Heights would be the precondition of a rapprochement. The support of Assad for Shia militia must be also evaluated from the aspect of keeping the Sunni-Islamist forces in check.

Again... the real enemy of the West are the Wahhabi/Salafi Sunni forces globally - centered in Saudi-Barbaria.

Israel has other priorities, that are NOT identical with the vital interests of the West. Of course they want others to believe that THEIR problems are OUR problems. It is a lot more complicated than that.

As to the Muslim vs. Jews vs. Christan thing... nothing in history has prevented each of them from cooperating with one against the other whenever they saw it necessary.

Erdogan looked down at the abyss at his feet, and decided that it would be better to step back away from terrorism and Islamofascism.

Sounds like a book written by a lunatic...or a paid stooge of Turkish lobbyists. His Corelli was silly fluff too.

You are correct about identifying the recent proactively deadly shift in Iran against Israel from April 1, 1979, with Iran becoming the Islamic Republic of Iran, and being ruled by the more radical Ayatollah Khomeini.

It is true the period between 1949-1978 saw Pahlavi going so far as to sell oil to Israel.

On this point you are correct, and I was far too historically generalized.

However, when I made the statement about “(Iran, Syria),” I was honestly recalling the influence of the Iranian Shia leader Khomeini.

In this light, it is also true that for decades before the violent rise of Khomeini in 1979, he taught absolute hatred and called for real violence toward the West and Israel.

It should also be pointed out, while Iran was not officially or proactively working to destroy Israel prior to April of 1979 during the Pahlavi rule, in 1947 Iran worked against and clearly apposed the creation of Israel, and then protested after Israel’s formation in 1948.

Additionally, being arguably the most formally authoritative Shia leader in the world, Ayatollah Khomeini did call on all Shia to “eliminate it [Israel].”

I have added the brackets to the following quote for emphasis -

“… This source [Isreal] should be eradicated through the efforts of Islamic countries and the great Muslim nation. Israel has launched an armed revolt against Islamic countries and it is obligatory for the Islamic states to eliminate it.

Helping Israel by way of selling weapons and explosive materials or selling oil is haram [reference to Pahlavi]; it is an act of disobeying Islam.

Relations with Israel and its mercenaries, whether commercial relations or political ones, are haram and an act of disobeying Islam; Muslims should avoid using or purchasing Israeli goods.

I ask Allah for the victory of Islam and Muslims.”

“May peace be upon him who follows guidance [to destroy Israel].”

Quran [20:47]

Ruhullah Mousavi Al-Khomeini

This spiritually authoritative call to arms was made on June 7, 1967, in the middle of the 6 day war (June 5-11, 1967).

So while Mohammad Reza Shah Pahlavi was the leader of Iran until January of 1978, when he went into exile, Ayatollah Khomeini was the highest Shia spiritual authority within Shia Islam and Iran, a religious system which has always required and forced its own formal system of societal governance.

In reality, Pahlavi would not have made it to 1978, without the support of the West.

In reality, Ayatollah Khomeini’s forceful teaching and guidance helped to stir up and motivate the predominantly Shia Iraqi and Lebanese forces, which joined the Sunni countries (Egypt, Syria, Jordan) in an attempt to annihilate Israel.

As you also know, the PLO, Pakistan, Kuwait, Libya, Tunisia, Morocco, Algeria, and Sudan also supported the effort to eliminate Israel. This was a full on generally Islamic attack on Israel. It was both Sunni and Shia.
What is only slightly less known, is that Russia supported the attack on Israel, and the US was quietly supporting Israel, even while we had an incident with Israel and one of our boats.

In fact, long before I was in the Army, an old friend of mine, (COL Combs, USAF Retired), who had been a fighter and U2 pilot, was actually shot down over Egypt by a Russian manned SAM, while he was flying in support of Israel.

*Ironically, it was a special Israeli unit went in and extracted him.

At the end of the day, while certainly not all of the same dynamics are the same, what is going on now is similar in the respect we are seeing re-alignment across the ME, with Russia and the US, with the relatively new player China beginning to impact the scenario.

While not telling you anything you don’t know, rehashing a bit history (as it pertains to my call for Israel not to trust anyone), there has clearly been the pendulum of on again/off again violence in the ME. This precedes Islam by thousands of years, sometimes between other nations and powers, and sometimes with Israel.

However, since the 7th century, the underlying motivation for eliminating Jews has originated from various teachings found within Islam. And it matters almost nothing whether Sunni or Shia, and long predates present day Israeli borders.

For the sake of not having to write a volume here, there are just a few historically fundamental motivations behind the general hatred toward Israel across the Islamic spectrum.

Mohammed hated Jews practically from the very beginning, as Jewish tribes in Arabia would not easily convert to Islam.
The Jews rejected Mohammed as a prophet, (even while there are examples of Jews and Muslims in history getting along and even supporting each other), *as a result, Jews (men, women, and children) were frequently tortured to death or slaughtered.

Subsequently, Jews would soon and often be demonized, blamed, and hated for everything under the sun, and this hatred was literally written into the Koran and hadiths, even while Israel had not been a nation since Babylon.

Mohammed went on to issue judgements and punishments of the Jews, referring to their becoming apes and pigs. These references toward Jews have remained common teaching within Islam all along, transcending the battles between Shiite and Sunni, as well as national borders.

“Judgement Day will come only when the Muslims fight the Jews and kill them, until the Jew hides behind the tree and the stone, and the tree and the stone say, ‘Oh Muslim, oh servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him.”

Within the Koran, Jews are inherently “evil,” “greedy,” “perverse,” & “heirs of hell.”

These teachings have been heavily utilized by the founder of the Islamic Republic of Iran, Ayatollah Khomeini well before the 6 Day War, and will continue to serve to cause real hatred, and will motivate future attempts to eliminate Israel.

While I have generalized history significantly, the new Islamic control of the Turkish Military will simply not bode well for Israel in the future.

It is perfectly understandable that Israel would continue making overtures and attempting alliances, even if shallow and short lived, as a way of possibly gaining important intel, and in an attempt keep from being wiped out.

Besides Turkey and the Saudi-sphere, Israel has also had several recent high level closed door meetings in Moscow and Washington.

There is a whole lot going on in the ME and around the world geopolitically, and I expect things to continue escalating.

The book is very sympathetic to the plight of the Greeks who were forced to leave Turkey. It describes in terrible detail what happened to many of the Greeks who were forced to leave. Did not sound like anything that a Turkish lobbyist would want to pay for.

During the reconquista, the Catholic Spanish Princes and Knights battled frequently against the Muslims and their Jewish allies. An amazing 800 year struggle.

Keep showing your ignorance. The light Dhimmitude of the so called Golden Age of Jews in Al Andalus was ended by Muslims in the mid 11th century. After this, Jews lived under full religious Jim Crow and could not touch a weapon.
The Catholic Spaniards fought the Muslims, who kept Jews and Arian Christians in a system of religious Jim Crow on good days. The Catholic alternative was forced conversion or death. It was the Catholic-Arian religios fights that allowed the Muslims to take North Africa and then Spain. Blaiming Jews is just pathetic.