Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

To: patriotfury
Patriotfury said: "Some (Iran/Syria) have remained proactive in this endeavor since 1948."

No.

Iran recognized Israel defacto in 1949 and maintained close relations and cooperation in all fields (Intelligence, military, economic) until 1979.

Iran is hostile to Israel only since the Revolution 1979... and even this has not prevented pragmatic cooperation between them... for instance against their common foe Saddam Hussein.

Ironically the pro-Israel lobby in the US had no small part in weakening the Shah in the years leading to the Revolution 1978/79. They resented that Imperial Iran was rapidly becoming the favorite US arms receiver and a regional great power... they also were apprehensive of the ramifications for Israel of an regional arms race between Iranians and Arabs.

Syria's main beef with Israel is the occupation of the Golan Heights. Assad in the past has repeatedly hinted that a return of the Golan Heights would be the precondition of a rapprochement. The support of Assad for Shia militia must be also evaluated from the aspect of keeping the Sunni-Islamist forces in check.

Again... the real enemy of the West are the Wahhabi/Salafi Sunni forces globally - centered in Saudi-Barbaria.

Israel has other priorities, that are NOT identical with the vital interests of the West. Of course they want others to believe that THEIR problems are OUR problems. It is a lot more complicated than that.

As to the Muslim vs. Jews vs. Christan thing... nothing in history has prevented each of them from cooperating with one against the other whenever they saw it necessary.

31 posted on 08/21/2016 3:18:12 AM PDT by SolidWood
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies ]


To: SolidWood

You are correct about identifying the recent proactively deadly shift in Iran against Israel from April 1, 1979, with Iran becoming the Islamic Republic of Iran, and being ruled by the more radical Ayatollah Khomeini.

It is true the period between 1949-1978 saw Pahlavi going so far as to sell oil to Israel.

On this point you are correct, and I was far too historically generalized.

However, when I made the statement about “(Iran, Syria),” I was honestly recalling the influence of the Iranian Shia leader Khomeini.

In this light, it is also true that for decades before the violent rise of Khomeini in 1979, he taught absolute hatred and called for real violence toward the West and Israel.

It should also be pointed out, while Iran was not officially or proactively working to destroy Israel prior to April of 1979 during the Pahlavi rule, in 1947 Iran worked against and clearly apposed the creation of Israel, and then protested after Israel’s formation in 1948.

Additionally, being arguably the most formally authoritative Shia leader in the world, Ayatollah Khomeini did call on all Shia to “eliminate it [Israel].”

I have added the brackets to the following quote for emphasis -


“… This source [Isreal] should be eradicated through the efforts of Islamic countries and the great Muslim nation. Israel has launched an armed revolt against Islamic countries and it is obligatory for the Islamic states to eliminate it.

Helping Israel by way of selling weapons and explosive materials or selling oil is haram [reference to Pahlavi]; it is an act of disobeying Islam.

Relations with Israel and its mercenaries, whether commercial relations or political ones, are haram and an act of disobeying Islam; Muslims should avoid using or purchasing Israeli goods.

I ask Allah for the victory of Islam and Muslims.”

“May peace be upon him who follows guidance [to destroy Israel].”

Quran [20:47]

Ruhullah Mousavi Al-Khomeini


This spiritually authoritative call to arms was made on June 7, 1967, in the middle of the 6 day war (June 5-11, 1967).

So while Mohammad Reza Shah Pahlavi was the leader of Iran until January of 1978, when he went into exile, Ayatollah Khomeini was the highest Shia spiritual authority within Shia Islam and Iran, a religious system which has always required and forced its own formal system of societal governance.

In reality, Pahlavi would not have made it to 1978, without the support of the West.

In reality, Ayatollah Khomeini’s forceful teaching and guidance helped to stir up and motivate the predominantly Shia Iraqi and Lebanese forces, which joined the Sunni countries (Egypt, Syria, Jordan) in an attempt to annihilate Israel.

As you also know, the PLO, Pakistan, Kuwait, Libya, Tunisia, Morocco, Algeria, and Sudan also supported the effort to eliminate Israel. This was a full on generally Islamic attack on Israel. It was both Sunni and Shia.
What is only slightly less known, is that Russia supported the attack on Israel, and the US was quietly supporting Israel, even while we had an incident with Israel and one of our boats.

In fact, long before I was in the Army, an old friend of mine, (COL Combs, USAF Retired), who had been a fighter and U2 pilot, was actually shot down over Egypt by a Russian manned SAM, while he was flying in support of Israel.

*Ironically, it was a special Israeli unit went in and extracted him.

At the end of the day, while certainly not all of the same dynamics are the same, what is going on now is similar in the respect we are seeing re-alignment across the ME, with Russia and the US, with the relatively new player China beginning to impact the scenario.

While not telling you anything you don’t know, rehashing a bit history (as it pertains to my call for Israel not to trust anyone), there has clearly been the pendulum of on again/off again violence in the ME. This precedes Islam by thousands of years, sometimes between other nations and powers, and sometimes with Israel.

However, since the 7th century, the underlying motivation for eliminating Jews has originated from various teachings found within Islam. And it matters almost nothing whether Sunni or Shia, and long predates present day Israeli borders.

For the sake of not having to write a volume here, there are just a few historically fundamental motivations behind the general hatred toward Israel across the Islamic spectrum.

Mohammed hated Jews practically from the very beginning, as Jewish tribes in Arabia would not easily convert to Islam.
The Jews rejected Mohammed as a prophet, (even while there are examples of Jews and Muslims in history getting along and even supporting each other), *as a result, Jews (men, women, and children) were frequently tortured to death or slaughtered.

Subsequently, Jews would soon and often be demonized, blamed, and hated for everything under the sun, and this hatred was literally written into the Koran and hadiths, even while Israel had not been a nation since Babylon.

Mohammed went on to issue judgements and punishments of the Jews, referring to their becoming apes and pigs. These references toward Jews have remained common teaching within Islam all along, transcending the battles between Shiite and Sunni, as well as national borders.

“Judgement Day will come only when the Muslims fight the Jews and kill them, until the Jew hides behind the tree and the stone, and the tree and the stone say, ‘Oh Muslim, oh servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him.”

Within the Koran, Jews are inherently “evil,” “greedy,” “perverse,” & “heirs of hell.”

These teachings have been heavily utilized by the founder of the Islamic Republic of Iran, Ayatollah Khomeini well before the 6 Day War, and will continue to serve to cause real hatred, and will motivate future attempts to eliminate Israel.

While I have generalized history significantly, the new Islamic control of the Turkish Military will simply not bode well for Israel in the future.

It is perfectly understandable that Israel would continue making overtures and attempting alliances, even if shallow and short lived, as a way of possibly gaining important intel, and in an attempt keep from being wiped out.

Besides Turkey and the Saudi-sphere, Israel has also had several recent high level closed door meetings in Moscow and Washington.

There is a whole lot going on in the ME and around the world geopolitically, and I expect things to continue escalating.


34 posted on 08/21/2016 8:38:21 PM PDT by patriotfury (May the fleas of a thousand camels occupy mo' ham mads tent!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson