Posted on 07/18/2016 9:44:51 PM PDT by aynrandfreak
Mrs. Trump, Monday night:
“From a young age, my parents impressed on me the values that you work hard for what you want in life, that your word is your bond and you do what you say and keep your promise, that you treat people with respect. They taught and showed me values and morals in their daily lives. That is a lesson that I continue to pass along to our son. And we need to pass those lessons on to the many generations to follow. Because we want our children in this nation to know that the only limit to your achievements is the strength of your dreams and your willingness to work for them.”
Mrs. Obama, in her 2008 speech:
“Barack and I were raised with so many of the same values: that you work hard for what you want in life; that your word is your bond and you do what you say you’re going to do; that you treat people with dignity and respect, even if you don’t know them, and even if you don’t agree with them. And Barack and I set out to build lives guided by these values, and pass them on to the next generation. Because we want our children — and all children in this nation — to know that the only limit to the height of your achievements is the reach of your dreams and your willingness to work for them.
(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...
Watch the compared video clips. The quotes from Michelle Obama’s speech are accurate.
“the particular construction of that line “
This is the fault with your standard.
Mere ‘construction’ is not a sufficient standard.
Not a lawyer or a specialist in the field. Would be amenable of course to authoritative legal correction.
Personal moral standards vary, I believe a dispassionate person would take the same view as I: “Close but no cigar.”
That leaves the competency of the vetting process toward a different standard: “what can the media do with a plagiarism claim?”.
I don’t think that standard can ever predominate. The media can ‘claim’ whatever it wants.
“almost exactly”
Is that what scholarly juries or panels are instructed to use as their standard in judging plagiarism?
Seems no more useful than “I know pornography when I see it”.
I’m suspicious of sabotage. In late June Trump hired Cruz aide Jason Miller as communications adviser. Did he hire the speech writers? Did a Cruz loyalist do this as payback for Trump’s nasty tweet about Heidi?
All this proves is that the speechwriter for Moochelle was a time traveler and went into the future and copied Melania’s speech, looking for something of quality that might meet with some success.
It’s quite frustrating. Last night I went to bed thinking “partisan is is horrible.” I believe in what I believe. What Trump says speaks to me since the moment he came down that gilt escalator. But that doesn’t mean he can do no wrong.
I was here for the W campaign / election. We were all so happy after Clinton. We defended his rich boy AWOLs, we thought he was against abortion when he arranged one for his own child out of fear of losing his political viability. He did the same as Obama when he got in to the WH: sealed and destroyed evidence - not citizenship but of his father’s treasons and deadly machinations. YET BUSH ON FREE REPUBLIC COULD DO NO WRONG. I understand why we voted for him over Gore, don’t get me wrong.
BUT PEOPLE ON THE RIGHT CAN MAKE MISTAKES. If we don’t hold our team to the fire, it lessens us. It’s not a huge deal: a lazy speechwriter. Melania had no idea.
Ah, yes.
Let’s not talk about the night’s speeches.
Agreed, plagiarism is a smaller wrong than treason and murder, Hillary’s vices. However, we must note any kind of wrong doing in our leaders. Just like we would in our families. You don’t OK your 10 year old stealing $5’from your wallet.
Also, this is a failure of some speech writer who needs to have his or her career ENDED. I can’t believe plagiarists like Doris Kearns Flappymouth still sell books. This reflects on Melania only if she insists she wrote it, which she did not. I speak a couple languages like she speaks English but I know not to write a speech in those languages.
Okay, then, what are you basing your judgment on that you believe it isn’t plagiarism? My degree has a great deal to do with original writing, and avoiding the plagiarizing of the words and ideas of others.
In that, the specific construction of a thought IS very important.
There are so many different ways of saying very similar things. Melania’s line used the same construction and almost exactly the same words.
But this is nothing next to all the actual SERIOUS issues and scandals that are country is dealing with.
“As I learned anew in crossing Antarctica, the only limit to achievement is the limit you place on your own dreams.” From the book Crossing Antarctica..
“Your word is your bond.” Melvyn Douglass
I stole platitudes before you stole platitudes... ridiculous nonsense.... more reason the left is heading to a crushing in November.
and predictably the media is discussing this all day... and the never Trump crowded added to the excitement. This is in fact the most exciting convention ever... who doesn’t love a great public brawl???
Yes, I suspect that speechwriter is already on the bricks. Probably another Romney staffer sabotaging the Republican campaign.
Specifically, I don’t think that making two consecutive identical statements in a different wording is plagiarism.
I’m well aware that I could be legally mistaken (or inaccurate) and appreciate your reply.
(I did notice the similarity to a song with her “never give up... never let you down’ line. Which is analogous to the amount of similarity claimed for her Moochelle plagiarism).
Yeah, it is nothing about nothing IMO too. Just curious now.
There are two competing conspiracy theories:
Sabotage- and Trump deliberately did it for more coverage.
Don’t care for either.
Pnz1, there really are much, MUCH more important issues people should be focusing on.
For instance, I just posted a thread showing that CNN’s version of an amateur video of the Alton Sterling shooting was apparently altered. The sound of the gunshots was moved to an earlier place in the video. THAT is very serious, if CNN did that.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3450819/posts
But in the case of the two quotes you mention. Take the part about “your word is your bond.” That’s a common expression, and no one thought Michelle Obama created it. We all use such common expressions all the time.
The other quote, from “Crossing America,” is still comparing apples to oranges. It’s a common thought to say that one’s only limits are the ones one places on oneself, and even to use the word “dreams.” It’s the common inspirational jargon.
The difference between that and the Melania or Michelle line is that there is more to the line than just the part about limits on dreams:
“Because we want our children in this nation to know that the only limit to your achievements is the strength of your dreams and your willingness to work for them.”
And,
“Because we want our children — and all children in this nation — to know that the only limit to the height of your achievements is the reach of your dreams and your willingness to work for them.”
They are good thoughts, and commonly expressed ones by First Ladies and politicians in general, but the speechwriter responsible for Melania’s speech didn’t do enough to change up how to express them.
It can certainly be a challenge when you want to say very similar things. The THOUGHTS expressed are common ones, so not original in and of themselves.
It’s like how similar greeting cards can sound to each other.
So for that reason, this is really minor “borrowing,” and not at all like paragraphs being taken from the speeches of others.
But just doing a little bit more work would have accomplished expressing the same thoughts but without the obvious borrowing. And you have to do it since seemingly borrowed lines in a First Lady’s speech are likely to be discovered quickly, as they were, especially with a Republican candidate.
Supposedly, I heard, there were several parts of the speech that were “very similar.” I’d want to see the others. Those charges could be false.
Paul Manafort is undoubtedly the fifth columnist.
Saw someone saying that on Twitter that there was an enemy in the camp.
Got a link for that?
Her line includes the important phrase “keep their promise” that is is sharp rebuke to Obama’s lines
Sorry, there are a lot more than two consecutive identical statements in different words.
I’d just been looking at one of the sentences.
Well, plagiarism is an apt charge.
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