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To: DiogenesLamp; x; PeaRidge; rockrr
DiogenesLamp: "The act of attempting to land those men to reinforce Sumter, after assuring everyone that he would not, was an act of War."

Rubbish.
First of all, Lincoln assured nobody he would abandon Fort Sumter.
Yes, he did offer in negotiations with Virginia Unionists to swap "a fort for a state" -- if Virginia agreed to adjourn its secession convention and remain in the Union, then Lincoln would withdraw from Fort Sumter.
But Virginians refused Lincoln's offer, and so it was withdrawn.

Second, Lincoln announced his resupply mission to Fort Sumter directly to South Carolina Governor Pickens.
He promised Pickens (and ordered his own commander) there would be no reinforcement if the resupply mission was met with no force from Confederates.

Third, the analogy with Guantanamo Bay applies here: regardless of what the Communist Cuban government may say about Gitmo, no US mission to resupply or reinforce US troops on that US base can be considered an act of war.

But any Communist or Confederate assault of US forces is an act of war, period.

418 posted on 07/07/2016 6:23:57 AM PDT by BroJoeK (a little historical perspective...)
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To: BroJoeK
First of all, Lincoln assured nobody he would abandon Fort Sumter. Yes, he did offer in negotiations with Virginia Unionists to swap "a fort for a state" -- if Virginia agreed to adjourn its secession convention and remain in the Union, then Lincoln would withdraw from Fort Sumter. But Virginians refused Lincoln's offer, and so it was withdrawn.

So as the old punchline goes:

"We've already determined what sort of girl you are, now we are just haggling over the price. "

The fact that Lincoln was admittedly willing to give it up means that the principle under which he claims to have been fighting (to preserve the Union) is negotiable. Therefore it isn't really a principle at all, but instead it was merely his price for a deal which would allow Independence for some Southern states.

Second, Lincoln announced his resupply mission to Fort Sumter directly to South Carolina Governor Pickens.

One does not need, what was it? 1,800 armed men to "resupply" a fort.

Of course that was not nearly sufficient to take the area by force, so it appears the only purpose of loading so many men and arms aboard ships was to convince the Confederates that he was going to deliberately violate the existing armistice.

The fact that he took great pains to conceal the assemblage of his forces from the Northern Public (it was completely impossible for him to conceal it from Confederate spies and sympathizers) indicates that he knew very well how it would be regarded if it's existence, and of what it consisted, became widely known to the Northern civilian populace.

So if it was innocent, why hide it? Why the skullduggery?

424 posted on 07/07/2016 7:47:19 AM PDT by DiogenesLamp ("of parents owing allegiance to no other sovereignty.")
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