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To: BroJoeK
First of all, Lincoln assured nobody he would abandon Fort Sumter. Yes, he did offer in negotiations with Virginia Unionists to swap "a fort for a state" -- if Virginia agreed to adjourn its secession convention and remain in the Union, then Lincoln would withdraw from Fort Sumter. But Virginians refused Lincoln's offer, and so it was withdrawn.

So as the old punchline goes:

"We've already determined what sort of girl you are, now we are just haggling over the price. "

The fact that Lincoln was admittedly willing to give it up means that the principle under which he claims to have been fighting (to preserve the Union) is negotiable. Therefore it isn't really a principle at all, but instead it was merely his price for a deal which would allow Independence for some Southern states.

Second, Lincoln announced his resupply mission to Fort Sumter directly to South Carolina Governor Pickens.

One does not need, what was it? 1,800 armed men to "resupply" a fort.

Of course that was not nearly sufficient to take the area by force, so it appears the only purpose of loading so many men and arms aboard ships was to convince the Confederates that he was going to deliberately violate the existing armistice.

The fact that he took great pains to conceal the assemblage of his forces from the Northern Public (it was completely impossible for him to conceal it from Confederate spies and sympathizers) indicates that he knew very well how it would be regarded if it's existence, and of what it consisted, became widely known to the Northern civilian populace.

So if it was innocent, why hide it? Why the skullduggery?

424 posted on 07/07/2016 7:47:19 AM PDT by DiogenesLamp ("of parents owing allegiance to no other sovereignty.")
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To: DiogenesLamp; rockrr; x
DiogenesLamp: "The fact that Lincoln was admittedly willing to give it up means that the principle under which he claims to have been fighting (to preserve the Union) is negotiable.
Therefore it isn't really a principle at all, but instead it was merely his price for a deal which would allow Independence for some Southern states. "

That's ridiculous, you have it exactly backwards.
The fact that Lincoln was willing to sacrifice Fort Sumter to secure the state of Virginia in the Union -- and along with Virginia, North Carolina, Tennessee and Arkansas -- that proves Lincoln's first concern was preserving as much of the old Union as possible.
The fact that Virginia was not willing to adjourn its secession convention, or promise not to secede, demonstrates that they were just waiting for the right excuse to switch sides and declare secession.
Lincoln's expedition to Fort Sumter provided Confederates with an excuse to start Civil War, which provided Virginians with the excuse they needed to declare secession.

Was any of that wise?
From the Confederate perspective it was extraordinarily fortunate, since it resulted in four more secessions (Virginia, North Carolina, Tennessee & Arkansas) more than doubling Confederate white population and military manpower.
From Lincoln's perspective it at least eliminated uncertainty & clarified what the future required: war.

DiogenesLamp: "One does not need, what was it? 1,800 armed men to "resupply" a fort."

If that were remotely true, then President Buchanan's January mission sending the Star of the West to resupply Fort Sumter would have accomplished its purpose.
But Star of the West was driven off by Charleston secessionists' cannon fire.

Lincoln's commander, Gustavus Fox, believed he had adequate forces to get through that level of expected Confederate fire.
He didn't, of course, beginning with the fact that most of his ships did not arrive on time, or were diverted elsewhere.
So, at the beginning of the battle for Fort Sumter, Fox had only the small Revenue Cutter, Harriet Lane (95 officers & men), supporting a large civilian steamer, SS Baltic, transporting supplies, plus about 200 US Army troops.
The small sloop Pocahontas (558 tons) arrived too late, while the larger sloop Pawnee (1,533 tons) was ordered to stay well away from Charleston.
In the mean time, the largest warship, frigate USS Powhattan (2,415 tons), was diverted to Fort Pickens, Florida.

So, bottom line, Lincoln's force was just enough to resupply Fort Sumter, not to break through Confederate guns, and brought only a couple hundred reinforcement troops, which were ordered not to land if not resisted.

DiogenesLamp: "Of course that was not nearly sufficient to take the area by force, so it appears the only purpose of loading so many men and arms aboard ships was to convince the Confederates that he was going to deliberately violate the existing armistice."

But there weren't "so many men and arms" on the morning of April 12, when Confederates began their military assault on Fort Sumter.
Instead, there were just the Revenue Cutter, Harriet Lane, with 95 sailors and the large civilian steamer, SS Baltic, with supplies and about 200 troops.

Bottom line: Lincoln in April was attempting to do nothing more than what President Buchanan had tried in January, to resupply Fort Sumter.
Yes, the original idea was one large and three small warships supporting a civilian steamer, but as it happened, when the battle began there was only a revenue cutter and civilian steamer available to the commander, Gustavus Fox.

So the Confederate decision to assault Fort Sumter had nothing to do with the size or number of Lincoln's ships, but rather with their own judgement that war was better than the alternatives.

489 posted on 07/10/2016 12:58:25 PM PDT by BroJoeK (a little historical perspective...)
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