Posted on 05/25/2016 12:10:20 AM PDT by Berlin_Freeper
More than 300 prominent historians, including Simon Schama and Niall Ferguson, are warning voters that if they choose to leave the European Union on 23 June they will condemn Britain to irrelevance.
In a letter to the Guardian, the academics and writers argue that the referendum offers a chance to underscore the “irreplaceable role” Britain has played, and should continue to play, in Europe’s history.
“As historians of Britain and of Europe, we believe that Britain has had in the past, and will have in the future, an irreplaceable role to play in Europe,” the letter says.
“On 23 June, we face a choice: to cast ourselves adrift, condemning ourselves to irrelevance and Europe to division and weakness; or to reaffirm our commitment to the EU and stiffen the cohesion of our continent in a dangerous world.”
(Excerpt) Read more at theguardian.com ...
And you think the English today are better? They are a highly anti-religious culture right now and have only slightly less MOslems than Germany.
Thanks for pointing this out Winnie
no worries — while there are lots and lots of things to dislike about the EU (and I despise their refusal to acknowledge Christianity as a common basis for Europe as well as their overdone bureaucracy), the arguments for brexit here are just incorrect.
There already is such a confederation of nations with thousand-year old gripes - the Indian union - with gripes between Punjabis, Marathas, Tamils, Odishi, Bengalis etc. — generally it works, but the problem is with Islam, and that will be the problem in any federation
Also, the gripes between Bavarians and other German states is lesser but still real
The European Union specifically was formally established as part of the Maastricht on 1 NOvember 1993 -- it was first drafted on 10 December 1991 - during bush senior's tenure, so would you say that the EU was Bush senior's production?? come on....
Sorry friend I disagree.
Just a correction: England is NOT a sovereign nation and hasn’t been since 1707, nor would it be if it left the EU, it is part of a United Kingdom and sovereignty is shared between England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.
I just pointed out that "Britain should retain their autonomy... Strength and individualism." would not be true when they leave the EU.
I mean it's all very well to leave the EU, but the UK, or rather more specifically England, would lose out access to its largest market unless they follow the rules of the EU
Look at Norway or Switzerland -- they still have to follow EU rules if they want to export to it.
IF the UK wants to defy the EU, they can, but it would mean a drastic reduction in quality of life, GDP etc.
well, England would become a sovereign nation if it voted out — because the Scots would ask for a new referendum and leave the UK. The Welsh would follow and NI would be split between a large number of people who don’t want a border with the Republic of Ireland
No they won’t. They’ve had a referendum and they don’t have a mandate, or the legal right to call for another one for many years to come. It wouldn’t make sense for Scotland to leave the UK to rejoin the EU. Over 70% of Scotland’s ‘external’ trade is with the rUK and less than 18% of it is with the EU, it would make no sense whatsoever to leave the UK over the EU. As for NI, well, that’s up to them. The idea that there would be border controls is scaremongering nonsense though. The CTA and free trade with Ireland long predates the EU and it is not in Ireland’s or the UK’s interests to see this stopped, and we are also Ireland’s most important trading partner. If pushed too far, Ireland would be the next to leave the EU.
About whether it makes sense for Scotland to leave the UK, you are correct -- economically it does not make sense, but the same argument could be made about the UK leaving the EU (since 44% odd of the UK's trade is with the EU). Economics play a role in people's minds when deciding on a referendum, but emotions seem to play a larger role
As for Northern Ireland -- your point is also valid, it could go the other way with Ireland leaving the EU.
The reason I don't understand it is that they have lost their native language and much of their culture seemed to me reduced to "William Wallace" and "we aren't English"
But they have this nationalism, and it is emotive. Now its based more on "dang Tories"
Alex Salmond is a has-been and he will always remain bitter about his defeat in the referendum and always angle for an excuse to have another one. He won’t find it though. If we left the EU, they’d have to present an even weaker economic case for leaving than the one that lost them the previous referendum. Scottish independence is a dead issue for the next 20 years.
Polls suggest otherwise — it looks like the majority of Scots would now vote for an out vote in the event of a Brexit. You are right that they have no economic case, but this, like the Brexit referendum is about emotions, not economics - and these are not rational (or even at times correct)
The economics still play a huge part in this debate. Britain is a net contributor to the EU, Scotland is not a net contributor to the UK. If they had another poll after a Brexit they’d still lose, probably by a larger margin because their economic non arguments would destroy them.
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