Posted on 02/25/2016 3:19:09 PM PST by Swordmaker
“And I’m not a drama queen. You can see from my old posts I’m rarely this upset.”
Be upset with someone else. I am not a guy who likes getting called a boot licker. And I ain’t shy. You don’t know me, or anything about what I do and what I have done for my country. My country. This isn’t new to me, Bud. I have opinions, too. This Huge Deal will get settled in a court room soon enough, because the 4th amendment to the Constitution is not going to get ignored.
This means ELIMINATING EVERYONES PRIVACY and data security to prosecute a few criminals.
I’m sure you support the “no knock” warrants too because a few dopers flushed a baggie a couple times.
WHY NOT JUST GIVE THEM ALL OUR KEYS AND BE DONE WITH IT? IT’S ONLY FOR CATCHING CRIMINALS AND WE CAN’T HAVE “PERFECT” PRIVACY!
Right. Thanks for your reasoned response. I’m sure you would love to be in a constant state of anarchy, but I’ll pass.
There was a line in one of the "Jesse Stone" episodes when Jesse is talking to the local mafioso and the guy asks; Jesse how come what we talk about is never what we are talking about.
Seems about right for these discussions.
And you are wrong about all of that, jessduntno. Let's take them in reverse order.
“FBI director Comey Tweeted that it was highly unlikely there was anything on a work phone. They also HIGHLY PUBLICIZED their efforts to open the encryption, giving lots of warning to anyone who would know their contact info might be in there, if it was, to flee. But the FBI has the contact info from that iPhone from a 45 day ago backup to iCloud.”
It wasn’t a work phone for the last 6 weeks that immediately preceded the killings. That 45 days would be more likely to have information on it than not, but they don’t know. The facts are important, though, not the more likely and what ifs. I see nothing in your post that proves I am wrong, but you did a nice jb of presenting a lot of speculation as if it was fact. “They could have cloned the Flash Drive and put a supercomputer to work on trying keys on day one. So what if it would have taken forever and three days to try all possible Keys to find the unique one that will decipher those data.”
If we are going to play “what if” suppose it took 3 mins?
C’mon. You’re better than this.
“It is ALREADY being used as a legal precedent.”
No. It’s not. You do not understand what an established precedent is.
“Right. Thanks for your reasoned response. I’m sure you would love to be in a constant state of anarchy, but I’ll pass”
Please. We didn’t have anything even resembling a “constant state of anarchy” before instituting no-knock warrants and turn-key electronic surveillance of every citizen.
This is all another government LIE to eventually establish surveillance and control of EVERYTHING we do!
With KNOWLEDGEABLE hackers ANYTHING is possible.
Which reminds me... the IRS announced today that 750,000 accounts were HACKED into.
This is now TWICE the amount that was announced initially.
“This is all another government LIE to eventually establish surveillance and control of EVERYTHING we do!”
I sure have wandered into the I hate America Club here. Feels like DU has moved over here. Wonder if they are all cheering the fact that every single R candidate is on the side of the FBI in this case?
perhaps what Swordmaker meant to write was “anticipated legal precedent.” Otherwise, what do you think he means specifically and why do you think he is wrong specifically?
I did not say it was fact. YOU inferred I implied it was fact. Some of it is fact. . . I just told you the likelihoods are that all this is a waste of time.
It is FAR MORE LIKELY THAN NOT that the closer the terrorists got to the attack that Farook would NOT use his work phone for anything incriminating, lest he expose his plans. They were disciplined terrorists with compartmentalized thinking. He carried a BURNER phone for such terrorist communications. The FBI has the call logs for that iPhone and the only phone calls logged on that County phone that could possibly be considered at all suspicious were a few to his wife during business hours. There were no calls outside of business hours. It has all the earmarks of a business phone. Farouk KNEW that the billing and call records went to the county bean counters who saw every single phone call, in and out.
Supposed it DID take three minutes? Then why are we here? YOU are the one proposing the supercomputer get its chance, not me.
My point I'm making is that the FBI knows there is nothing to find on this iPhone. Had there been, it would have been smashed like the other phones and computers. Do you think Farook just appreciated the fine workmanship and just couldn't bring himself to swing the hammer down on it? Apple said they turned over data from the Terrorists' iCloud "accounts", plural, but the FBI has only reported ONE iPhone in their findings. From that I infer that at least one of their computers they smashed was an Apple Mac which also had an iCloud account. Farouk had no problem smashing it.
“I sure have wandered into the I hate America Club here. Feels like DU has moved over here. Wonder if they are all cheering the fact that every single R candidate is on the side of the FBI in this case?”
Oh please. Give ANY government such power without full public oversight and someone inside WILL abuse it 10000%. Enforcing checks/balances to prevent this does not mean you ‘hate’ your country!!
That is why this nation was founded with STRICT LIMITS on the power of government and why we have juries. Because people are corrupt and cannot be trusted with that much hidden power!
There have been NUMEROUS examples already of intelligence officers abusing their power and spying on innocent citizens. Even the NSA ADMITTED in 2013 their agents already abused the system for personal gain a DOZEN times (that they know of)- http://www.cnn.com/2013/09/27/politics/nsa-snooping/
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/27/nsa-employee-spied-detection-internal-memo
http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/02/us/nsa-program-privacy-report/
Yes, I do. When other courts are citing the San Bernardino case as a precedent justifying THEIR requests in the court documents they have presented to Apple, it is a PRECEDENT. The Court Order exists. It matters not that it has a Request to Vacate filed against it. Apple is going to have to file a "Requests to Vacate" against every single one of those 15 as well.
Every one of those will be precedents too.
“Every one of those will be precedents too.”
Not unless they are adjudicated.
Preecedent
A previous ruling by a court that influences subsequent decisions in cases with similar issues.
Cyrus Vance is chomping at the bit.
Pardon me if I scoff at that. These hypothetical hackers have been TRYING to hack into these iPhones for three years and are bouncing. The Hacker Team, the company that SELLS the tools to the FBI, NSA, CIA, and other similar governmental organizations around the world, as well as police and prosecutorial agencies, has stated they have the tools to unlock every single mobile device EXCEPT Apple's iOS devices. They have a standing $1 million bounty for any hacker who can break into an unjailbroken iOS device that has gone uncollected.
Did you see that the FBI agent database was hacked by a 14 year old kid a couple of weeks ago? He got all of the agent's names, addresses, FBI IDs and even their current assignments, including undercover names and addresses. . . not to worry, he didn't get their Social Security Numbers. Luckily he voluntarily gave it all back, i hear.
So much of the US Government's data is in computers that are provided by the lowest bidder and now outdated by years.
Every one of the candidates who were asked about the Apple iPhone case were under the impression it was only about opening ONE phone. They showed they were not up-to-date on what was actually going on. . . or what the very important Constitutional issues involved were. They all referred to a search warrant when there is no search warrant.
“My point I’m making is that the FBI knows there is nothing to find on this iPhone. Had there been, it would have been smashed like the other phones and computers. Do you think Farook just appreciated the fine workmanship and just couldn’t bring himself to swing the hammer down on it?”
Maybe he was too dead to smash it? It was found in the back seat after the shootout. I mean, if you want to play “what if” games all day like this, at least reach for one that makes sense.
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