Posted on 01/27/2016 4:17:13 PM PST by Lurking Libertarian
The federal government outlined its case Wednesday against Ammon Bundy and other militants charged with occupying an Oregon wildlife refuge.
The criminal complaint was filed in federal court in Portland.
It lists video and written evidence that shows Ammon Bundy, Ryan Bundy, Ryan Payne, Pete Santilli, Shawna Cox, Jon Ritzheimer and Joseph O'Shaughnessy all took part in an armed occupation at the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge.
Federal prosecutors have charged all of the defendants with felonies related to preventing federal workers from doing their jobs.
All of the defendants except Ritzheimer, who turned himself in to Arizona law enforcement Tuesday, appeared before Judge Stacie Beckerman in Portland Wednesday afternoon.
[snip]
Federal prosecutors Wednesday argued during the hearing that the defendants should all be detained during the court proceedings because they are part of "an ongoing conspiracy" and could potentially return to the wildlife refuge near Burns, Oregon if released.
Defense attorneys countered that the defendants mostly did not have criminal histories and should be released on bail. They'll have a detention hearing on Friday.
All of the militants except for leader Ammon Bundy opted to accept court appointed defense attorneys on the grounds that they could not afford their own counsel.
Ammon Bundy was represented at the hearing by Lissa Casey, an attorney with Arnold Law in Eugene, Oregon.
(Excerpt) Read more at opb.org ...
A fraud with multiple socks.
Don’t you mean demand a trial for the shooter(s)?
Trust me, there were multiple jack-booted thugs who pumped lead into Mr. Finicum.
There are no words to describe your stupidity.
Most of my family and friends who own ranches, share your view.
I'm in SW PA ... whadoIknow about those things ?
MOST people in America are only superficially informed of all the factors and we tend to formulate our thought processes around generalizations .... Patriots protecting property .... intrusive government .... THOSE kinds of things
Jeff Head has been a big help in a lot of ways, but personal affiliation to THIS situation is what we need
Did not the “Occupy” folks take over Public Property and stop Federal Employees from doing their Jobs?
How many of them were arrested and / or Shot to Death?
Good point.
How ironic.
They certainly did which is why they should not have gone armed. Bad idea.
Land use is a huge issue because the federal government keeps acquiring more of it. Who better knows how to manage land, locals or bureaucrats in DC? The land should be returned to the states.
I grew up in the sticks, in tidewater, mountains, and finally, most of my life, on the prairie.
I have worked all over the Rockies from Nevada to Canada as a geologist, well away from the tourist trails, and along the way, even worked cattle a little out here.
I know the land grab issue from back there where use of land and resources are denied by a wide variety of exclusions, setbacks, buffer zones, zoning and environmental rules which prevent harvesting millions of dollars worth of timber planted by an ancestor nearly two centuries ago.
From here, I have seen the stunts the environmentalists have tried, the attempts to limit access to water and land for ranchers, the attempts to have normally relatively rare critters declared "endangered" to force ranchers to carry land on tax rolls, but not be able to use it.
I understand the issues from the standpoints of water rights, grazing leases, private land inholding access, and denial of use of privately owned lands or the resources thereon--deeded acreage, not leases.
The issue I have with this situation (the original one) is that the BLM burns thousands of acres, homes, etc, in a runaway burn, and "Oops."
The Hammonds burn a few extra acres and they are tried as "terrorists".
This from an arm of an administration which does not even speak of Islamic Terrorists who shoot up a Christmas Party as "terrorists".
That should not have happened, those charges were inappropriate.
As far as back-burns to save their property, I have known that to be done here during a prairie fire, with access gained and backfires set despite the BLM who had blocked roads to prevent ranchers access to their private land, ranch buildings, and homes--and with rousing success. Ranches were saved, and the fire stopped by such 'rogue' measures.
Yes, this is a serious issue, but the American people want a victim before someone can be a martyr, and no one who can be portrayed in any way as justifiably wanting something for nothing (pay the lease fees!).
Those who do own something, and the diminishing number of us who understand what it is to be a steward to your land, to work it not for today but for future generations, are not understood by those who do not own, and who do not know the land but who think that something as dynamic as nature can be somehow preserved in stasis in perpetuity by simply not using it, whether they are Federal employees or just people who don't get it.
Strangely enough, hosts of people from the suburbs who realize that if they don't cut their lawn it will grow tall and turn brown don't get that pasture loses food value past a certain point, and just becomes fuel for the next wildfire, thick with indigestible cellulose of little if any food value.
Allow noxious weeds to proliferate in that grass, and they will take over, rendering the pasture useless for fodder. Allow those same weeds to take over adjacent land, and you will have trouble as seeds blow into good rangeland and choke it with weeds (Why I did not 'get' CRP--and why in a couple of years, the critters were out in the cultivated fields).
While I think the Hammonds were practicing basically sound practices, and should not have been charged, much less convicted of "terrorism", that is what it is.
For people to come there from outside to make this their cause is admirable in a way, that they would use protest to heighten awareness is good.
There is a limit.
Rally people, get information on other abuses and questionable cases, and then skedaddle.
Continuing there, with the various LE and Federal agencies exorbitantly racking up huge bills on the taxpayer's dime wins no one to the side of ranchers.
It only ticks people off, more than it wins over.
As a protest, the law of diminishing returns applies, as it does to any protest.
There comes a point where you can conceivably win, or it is time to quit while you are ahead in the court of public opinion.
This ran too long, gave the Feds a black eye, and swayed public opinion the wrong way among those who don't have knowledge of the problem.
Bad tactics.
Agreed.
Will the FBI have the balls to go after the real murdering criminal?
For the American Revolution, it was about 1/3 loyalists, 1/3 patriot, and 1/3 on the fence. Without the French Fleet at Yorktown to stop the British from either reinforcing or withdrawing Cornwalis' forces, that might not have ended well. Up to there, it was a squeaker.
Bad tactics.
Outstanding post. If FreeRepublic was given to stating policy, your post should be linked in the header.
Strangely enough, hosts of people from the suburbs who realize that if they don't cut their lawn it will grow tall and turn brown don't get that pasture loses food value past a certain point, and just becomes fuel for the next wildfire...
I'm sure you recall the 2011 wildfire in Arizona, up around Show Low. One of the residents addressed radical "environmentalists" -- not to mention the National Forest Service -- thusly: "Don't come up here in your luxury SUV, wearing designer jeans and tell me you 'love the woods'. You don't know a damn thing about the 'pristine' environment you profess to love."
To my mind, that is a quote for the ages.
I knew a couple in Alabama who spent their summer vacations up there building a cabin for their retirement. They retired, they moved out there...they got burned out and lost everything. Thanks to the NFS bureaucracy's 'environmental policies'....
MOST importantly, I understand the CONSTITUTION regarding those issues. The Bundy brothers were promoting a Constitutional viewpoint of these issues. I could explain it to you. However, i can’t make you understand the Constitution. Hire one of the ranchers to explain it to you.
Let’s see... OKC, Waco, Ruby Ridge, Ron brown, Fort Marcy park(?), that plane taken down over the coastal water, 9/11, fast & furious, benghazzi...
What’s balls got to do got to do widdit?
Check, and mate.
Well done.
You have me very confused - you make no sense, imho. My response referred to the fact a peaceful unarmed protestor was executed by a govt. thug while a murdering criminal is left alone to run for POTUS.
All reports of the event show all were unarmed... and not only that but the feds ambushed them specifically because they knew they were/were going to be unarmed at the time.
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