Modern Archaeology and Genesis

Institute for Creation Research ^ | Jan 2016 | Brian Thomas

[fishtank]

Modern Archaeology and Genesis

by Brian Thomas, M.S. *

Evidence for Creation

With so many loud voices in our culture asserting that Genesis is a myth, one would think archaeologists have uncovered clear evidence that refutes it. On the contrary, some incredible archaeological finds confirm key events in Genesis.

In the 1970s, archaeologists discovered tablets made before 2000 B.C. at Ebla in northern Syria. Among them were found creation tablets1 that say, “Lord of heaven and earth: / The earth was not, you created it; / The light of day was not, you created it.”2

Cylinder seals are tiny stone rollers with carved three-dimensional reverse images that the ancients would roll across wet clay to impress picture patterns onto the clay before baking it in a kiln. One of the oldest seals shows a seated woman reaching for one of two fruits hanging from a tree. A man also reaches for fruit opposite her, and behind her a serpent slithers. It has every key element from the Fall of man found in Genesis 3.

[dartuser]

I will not be distracted from the point I am making and that you cannot refute.

LOL ... you have in no way demonstrated your point, all you have done is maintain it by the willful ignoring of what the text says. It is easier for you to imposing your presuppositions on the text, instead of letting the obvious meaning of the text speak for itself. You have inserted meaning into the text that is not there.

If you accept allegory when there are no clues in the text that allegory is intended, then you can claim allegory wherever you want to, and there remains no foundation, authority or consistency for Biblical interpretation. That allows you to dismiss any passage where you don't like the clear intent and ramifications of the written text; or in your case, to dismiss the entire Bible.

For the sake of those who may read our 'conversation' ... let me spell it out ...

My conjecture is that the Genesis creation account is historical narrative, not poetry, not allegory. There is nothing in the text that even hints at the author intending to convey allegory. YOU are imposing that view on the text by bringing presuppositions INTO the text from outside the text. The reason I asked you and others if the Ten Commandments are allegory is simple ...

Exodus 20:8-16
8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work,
10 but the seventh day is a sabbath of the Lord your God; in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter, your male or your female servant or your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you.
11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day and made it holy.
12 Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be prolonged in the land which the Lord your God gives you.
13 You shall not murder.
14 You shall not commit adultery.
15 You shall not steal.
16 You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.

The context of the 4th commandment is a literal seven day work week, not ages of time, no allegory even hinted at in this passage. If you accept that the Ten Commandments are to be taken literally, then the text clearly implies a 6 literal day creation narrative.

There is no argument concerning what the author (Moses) intended the reader to understand here.

[muir_redwoods]

I know when I’ve won the argument. You have refused to address my point which I clearly made because you cannot. You drag out irrelevant point to distract from the issue. You have lost and are too childish to admit it.

[dartuser]

I know when I've won the argument.

We're not engaged in an argument, you are just insisting you're right without any evidence and you are unwilling to interact with any demonstrative purpose.

You have refused to address my point which I clearly made because you cannot.

Actually, I have challenged your point and you have not responded to my challenge; rather, you have declared victory before any points have been scored.

I'm sorry you're unable to understand my responses ... but I have directly answered your objections.

Let me try one more time, but I assure you I tire of your obfuscation:

There is nothing in the text of Joshua that demands an allegorical interpretation ... you are imposing your allegorical insistence exactly because you cannot accept what the text clearly says.

Something about having ears to hear applies in this case.

If you don't want to interact with my points then so be it ... I will not waste my time with someone whose desire is to win the debate by the default of silence rather than pose any cogent argument to advance his conjecture.

Now, are you going to advance the ball or what?

Tell me what in the text of Joshua indicates that the author intends allegorical interpretation here?

[muir_redwoods]

I asked a simple, clearly phrased question that could have been answered truthfully with as little as one word. Knowing you’d been caught out, you obfuscated the issue with unrelated sidetracks. I won’t take that bait and still wait for you to answer my original question. You won’t though, will you? To do so would require the adult ability to admit youre wrong.

[dartuser]

I asked a simple, clearly phrased question that could have been answered truthfully with as little as one word.

And that question was the following:

Did God stop the sun in the sky in Joshua alegorically or did he stop the rotation of the earth literally?

Knowing that this was a 'gotcha' question, but being intrigued, I decided to bite to see what your response would be ... your response was predictable ... but I was willing to continue the discussion.

the sun doesn't move though our sky and you know it. When presented with irrefutable evidence of allegorical pronouncement in the Bible you lack the intellectual honesty to admit it. Once you accept allegory in Joshua, you must accept it as possible elsewhere.

You do know I picked the first answer because I knew it would set you off right? I tried to get some kind of dialog with you ... but you're the one having none of it.

What if I chose the other and had said, 'the earth literally stopped rotating?' Would you be able to present the rotational energy equations to prove that's impossible?

It was then apparent to me what your presuppositions were in your next few statements: Accept that the Bible uses allegorical imagery and is far from inerrant ...

OK, fine ... you're an unbeliever, I get that ...

And I agree, the Bible does use allegorical imagery in some places, but not here in Joshua. The onus is on you to demonstrated that it uses it here in Joshua. I challenged you to provide the textual markers from Joshua that demand we apply a non-literal understanding of the Biblical text and you either couldn't (most likely) or you wouldn't.

So there really is nothing to discuss ... come back later when you can provide evidence from the text that the periscope demands allegorical interpretation. It would require that you actually read the Bible.

Till then ... I have other topics to engage in.

BTW, I encourage you to think about my other questions ... was the resurrection of Jesus Christ allegory ... or did He literally rise from the dead?

Perhaps your apprehension is the result of someone you know that represents the Lord Jesus Christ in a poor way.

I urge you to check out the claims of Christ for yourself, and not judge Him by someones poor representation of Him. It is the intellectually honest thing to do. I pray that you do that ...

See ya

[muir_redwoods]

so you can’t answer my question like an adult? Got it.

[dartuser]

so you can’t answer my question like an adult? Got it.

Well I didn't see that response coming LOL ...

Go back to sleep.

[muir_redwoods]

I’m the one whose awake, you’re dreaming in myth.

[dartuser]

I'm the one whose awake, you're dreaming in myth.

You will have to stand before that myth soon.

[Mom MD]

Also somehow Moses knew 5000 years ago that light was created before the stars. Either God told him, or he was incredibly lucky guessing. It took until the late 20th century and the cosmic background explorer for science to get there. What an awesome God we have.

[muir_redwoods]

in the history of humanity, 40,000 entities have been worshipped as gods or goddesses. I simply believe in one fewer than you do. If you need invisible friends and a guy-in-the-sky, go for it. I have no such needs.

[dartuser]

in the history of humanity, 40,000 entities have been worshipped as gods or goddesses.

Only one made the unique claims of Jesus Christ.

I simply believe in one fewer than you do.

By dismissing Him and His claims out-of-hand.

If you need invisible friends and a guy-in-the-sky, go for it.

I did go for it, 35 years ago ...

I have no such needs.

Then I assume you have already solved your main problem in this life ... you are going to die soon. Maybe this year, maybe next year, maybe 20 or 30 or 40 years from now. But you are going to die. Science may get you a few more years ... but your death is inevitable. I don't need to convince you of this truth, you know it to be so.

Only one of those 40,000 entities offers a solution to that problem ... and, more importantly, demonstrated that He alone has the power to solve that problem ... by raising from the dead Himself.

Acts 17:30-31
30 "Therefore having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now declaring to men that all everywhere should repent,
31 because He has fixed a day in which He will judge the world in righteousness through a Man whom He has appointed, having furnished proof to all men by raising Him from the dead."

[muir_redwoods]

those are all the fond hopes of people to afraid the face the truth in this life, we live, we die, we rot. Your Jesus never wrote a word and no one who heard him wrote it down. the oldest gospel was put on paper 80 years after the crucifixion.

Believe whatever you like. Dying isn’t a problem for me; living a life dedicated to delusion would be but I’m not.

[dartuser]

Your Jesus never wrote a word

True, but he told his disciples to write it down.

and no one who heard him wrote it down. the oldest gospel was put on paper 80 years after the crucifixion.

You are terribly misinformed. You could argue the oldest extant manuscript is dated around 110 AD ... but the writing of the NT is prior to 65 AD, with the exception of John and Revelation (around 95 AD).

OK, I'm done here. Ordinarily I would say thanks for the lively discussion. But we didn't have one. Your dialog style is to make your point then declare victory. I pray you will at least consider your predicament.

[muir_redwoods]

Stick to your bronze age mythology. I’ll stick to reason.