Posted on 01/15/2016 7:37:32 AM PST by RoosterRedux
To: RoosterRedux
-- Do you think that if Trump wins the nomination he could bring sufficient pressure and influence to get McConnell to change? And if McConnell changed, what would be the next step? --
Action in the Senate is a non-starter. I had an epiphany a few minutes ago. I'll share it.
Whether Cruz is NBC or not doesn't matter, not in the least. What matters is that the Canada BC creates a vector of plausible doubt. How, in the election process is this doubt resolved? At first, in the states.
Trump is 100% right. In the general election, in every state that Cruz as Pres or VP wins, there WILL be a lawsuit. The loser in an election has an absolute right to sue on eligibility grounds, regardless of the margin or loss.
So, the political issue is, does the party want to run an election that gets decided by 20 or 30 lawsuits? Before or after the voters voted doesn't matter so much - just changes how the general election is influenced by court decisions, which could well go against Cruz. Trump said, hey, 5% chance Cruz loses. Do you want to go to war with that risk?
Yes, there is a con-law issue in there too. But either the GOP "sues itself" in the primary, which flat out WONT happen, Cruz is certified qualified in all the states, so no challenge on eligibility is possible; leaving the alternative, lawsuits in the general.
We're stuck with that. Lawsuits in the general are dead certain, if Cruz is the nominee.
121 posted on 1/15/2016, 10:15:45 AM by Cboldt
Sure, but [channelling Dirty Harry], "Well, do you want to take a chance?"
Cruz....A constitutionalist only when convenient!
“nope, per above law, Sen Cruz is a NBC”
False Statement. Ted Cruz is an alien born child of a U.S. citizen mother naturalized at birth by a statutory law for Naturalization. Person who are naturalized at birth by the authority of statutory law and positive law are by definition not natural born citizens by the authority of natural law. This is plainly written in the U.S. Code statute Ted Cruz has stated is the authority for his claim of U.S. citizenship. See:
66 Stat. Public Law 414 - June 27, 1952
TITLE III - NATIONALITY AND NATURALIZATION
Chapter 1 - Nationality at Birth and by Collective Naturalization
NATIONALS AND CITIZENS OF THE UNITED STATES AT BIRTH
Sec. 301. (a) The following shall be nationals and citizens of the United States at birth; . . .
(7) a person born outside the geographical limits of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents one of whom is an alien, and the other a citizen of the United States who, prior to the birth of such person, was physically present in the United States or its outlying possessions for a period or periods totaling not less than ten years, at lest five of which were after attaining the age of fourteen years: Provided, That any periods of honorable service in the Armed Forces of the United States by such citizen parent may be included in computing the physical presence requirements of this paragraph.
The equivalent present day statute is:
U.S. Code: Title 8 - ALIENS AND NATIONALITY. Chapter 12 - IMMIGRATION AND NATIONALITY. Subchapter III - NATIONALITY AND NATURALIZATION. Part I - Nationality at Birth and Collective Naturalization. § 1401 - Nationals and citizens of United States at birth: The following shall be nationals and citizens of the United States at birth: ... (h) a person born before noon (Eastern Standard Time) May 24, 1934, outside the limits and jurisdiction of the United States of an alien father and a mother who is a citizen of the United States who, prior to the birth of such person, had resided in the United States.
U.S. Department of State Foreign Affairs Manual Volume 7
Consular Affairs. 7 FAM 1151 INTRODUCTION... b. 8 U.S.C. 1101(a)(23); INA 101(a)(23)) defines naturalization as the conferring of nationality of a state upon a person after birth by any means whatsoever. . . For the purposes of this subchapter naturalization includes:... (5) “Automatic” acquisition of U.S. citizenship after birth, a form of naturalization by certain children born abroad to U.S. citizen parents or children adopted abroad by U.S. citizen parents.
I imagine his VeeP would, but I really have no idea.
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I do think that Cruz could go all the way, I doubt that he will, I think Trump may have it sewed up. If Cruz wins the speaker of the house certifies the election and then he is president. True there might be lawsuits but they won't affect his being president until it is appealed to the Supreme Court which could take years. I have my doubts about a court having the guts to kick out a sitting president.
I am a Cruz first supporter. I wish however that he had renounced his Canadian Citizenship a long time ago instead of waiting until he decided he wanted to be president.
I do not believe that any of the lawsuits will prevail against Cruze but it will certainly make a circus attitude with the press. The press was afraid to say anything on the Obama birth issue but won't feel any constraint with Cruze. If nothing else it will be interesting and entertainging.
Now now Jeantel.
Did this issue appear because Trump brought it up, or was it already there.
Rational people are debating this on its merits and knowledgefof the late eighteenth and early nineteenth century law which engendered the article.
Idiots try to pin some sort of blame for an issue that was first raised five years ago when Cruz was running for Senate on the other presidential candidates running now.
Give it up Jeantel. Trayvon is dead. Trump didn’t kill Trayvon, and Trump didn’t raise the spectre of this eligibility issue.
Funny how you Trumpies are more excited about suing Cruz with a zero percent chance of success than you seem to be about charging Hillary Clinton for her crimes.
Oh, wait. Your guy DONATED to her. Maybe that’s why.
His supporters say Cruz is a NBC via Title 8 Section 1401 subsection G of the US Code.
However, you can't define a natural born Citizen with statutory law. Only Natural Law can define a natural born Citizen.
By the laws of 1790 and 1795, George Washington would not have considered Cruz eligible for the presidency. The relevant portion of the 1790 laws says: And the children of citizens of the United States that may be born beyond Sea, or out of the limits of the United States, shall be considered as natural born Citizens: Provided, that the right of citizenship shall not descend to persons whose fathers have never been resident in the United States:
INCONVENIENT FACTOIDS
<><> At the time of his birth in Canada, Cruz's father was prolly a Cuban citizen, and a Canadian living in Canada (dodging the draft?). Cruz Sr had not established an intent to be loyal to the USA and was actually listed w/ his American born-wife on the list of Canadian electors.
<><> Constitutional scholar, Ted Cruz, w/ two Ivy League degrees, including a law degree, has, no doubt, rigorously studied the issue of his citizenship down to the minutest detail.
<><> Cruz rightly says he is a US citizen but he surely knows he CANNOT be considered a natural born citizen; b/c he is a citizen by virtue of statute.
<><> Cruzs birth in Canada indicates he has THREE countries (The US via his mother, Canada his birthplace, and Cuba thru his father) having a legitimate claim on his allegiance from birth, whether he wanted it or not.
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The US Constitution and the rule of law must prevail. We should not yield to the same dark impulses of expediency and delusion that gave us the tyrannical sociopathic usurper demagogue Obama.
Choosing candidates who are creatures of the cult of personality has proved disastrous.
If we, the people, accept anything less than the constitution's original intent, frightening scenarios would unfold. Such as allowing the offspring of an American who joined ISIS and birthed a child in the Mideast w/ say, a Syrian, to claim eligibility for the office.
Yes, I was highly cognizant at that time; the difference being that the SCoFLA was deciding on votes cast, NOT foundational eligibility.
Yuuuuge difference.
“I cannot see Valerie Jarrett giving up her position as Consigliere to ‘a’ President.”
It has been suggested that Barack Hussein Obama will wait until just before the DNC primary to indict Hillary Clinton, force her out of the election, and then put Michelle Obama up for President against Sanders to get another 4-8 years in the White House.
That would be because he was initially answering a question posed by a journalist. He answered off the cuff and had to look into the issue afterwards.
It isn’t as though this issue were something Trump came up with.
Trayvon,
You may want to go and console yourself with your girlfriend Jeantel because your drug habit has clouded your mind.
There are no legal structures of decisions denying Cruz’s citizenship.
One can speculate and hope that Cruz is ineligible. Trump freely admits that this speculations are rooted in his poll positions versus cruz.
As he sees himself losing Iowa, he changes his mind about the citizenship issue.
Trump would accuse Cruz of being a Martian if he thought he could win Iowa by doing it.
Don’t be so sensitive about this.
You may want to run out and get more skittles. It might calm you down.
Whatever, man.
None of the useless insults you are tossing change the fact that this is an issue for Cruz, which in turn makes it an issue for American voters.
It’s a problem.
Now get mad about it all you want.
IIRC it was Trump who pressured Obama into posting a PDF depiction of a BC.
BKMK FOR TONIGHT.
Or federal "single payer" health care.
When the challenge is based on number of votes, there is a wide variety of "margin of loss" criteria before the loser gets to go to court. But the loser ALWAYS has a right to court on allegation of fraud, and on allegation in ineligibility.
State courts are competent to hear the case. The loser of either the election or the state court case can go to federal court too.
It would be messy.
Some people think walking in with a Canadian BC and an CRBA is a slam-dunk win for Cruz. Fine and dandy by me, I enjoy watching courts work.
BACKSTORY Texans elected Cruz to the US Senate not knowing he was a dual Canadian citizen.
It was not until a 2013 Dallas Morning News article that Cruz acknowledged his Canadian citizenry publicly. In 2014, the senator publicly renounced his Canadian citizenship altogether.
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A SECOND PROBLEM Cruz consistently depicted himself as "latino" Yet his family bgrnd indicates only his father is Spanish; his mother is of two nationalities, Italian and Irish from each of her parents.
Cruz ran in Texas as a latino (which has a wealth of latino votes). Cruz even convinced the Senate biographer that he was the first latino elected to the Senate (besides Rubio).
As the immigration issue grew negative in the world of politics, being known as a latino has lost its luster.
Cruz rarely mentions it now.
Exactly. I think trump wanted to run with Cruz. He also doesn’t like losing Iowa to Cruz. He needed Cruz’s eligibility FINALIZED NOW, and he needed a bump up in the polls, without hurting Cruz personally. This only is fighting against something Cruz can’t help: where he was born. Get this thing legalized by a court. Do it now. Oh, and you fight back, you don’t win Iowa.
Win win for Trump but he still might choose Cruz as his Veep.
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