Russia tells Washington: talk to us over Syria or risk 'unintended incidents'

Reuters ^ | September 11th, 2015 | By Christian Lowe

[Westbrook]

Nature hates a vacuum.

One thing Putin has going for him is this quote from Caligula.

“Let them hate us, as long as they fear us.”

[dfwgator]

[DoughtyOne]

The way I see it is as follows. Syria under Assad is far from paradise. Assad is a tyrannical monster, most definitely a dictator, and is not a friend to the West. Russia is led by a man who is a demogague, ghas certain nationalist interests that are definitely not beneficial to Western interests, and while he may claim otherwise is also a dictator.  I agree with you here.  In addition, it has been pointed out to me that Christians were in fact treated decently under Assad.  I had not known that.

With that out of the way, the West needs to realize - as we remember 911 - that militant Islam is a major threat across the globe. Whether it is Boko Haram and Al Shabaab in Africa, or Abu Sayyaf in the Philippines, or any of the various 'scion of Al Qaeda' that have sprung up around the ME, the fact is that ISIS is the most cogently effective Jihadi group to emerge. They did something that Osama never thought possible ...have an actual fledgling caliphate, hold land, take taxes, and have sustained success. They are consolidating power in Iraq, Syria, and parts of North Africa. In West Africa Boko Haram has pledged allegiance. Other groups may soon follow.  I agree here also.

Basically, you are looking at GlobalJihad.org.  Yes we are.

Now, the West's process of regime change - be it removing Saddam, or removing Qaddafi, or removing Assad - has been shown to be unworkable. We almost lost Egypt as well. Removing 'bad men' without having a viable alternative is foolish. Simple!  Here's where we differ materially.

I will agree with you that regime change in Libya and or Egypt was just idiotic.  Mubarak was a decent sort, as it relates to the West.  He shouldn't have been sold out.  When we allow that with him or the Shah or Iran, we are basically sending a signal to our allies, that we will sell them out at the drop of a hat.  That is a terrible message to send if you want future allies.  Even in Syria, regime change is problematic.  Better to have someone you don't agree with on many things and yet is peaceful, than to send them packing and let a radical group replace them.

Assad, Khadaffy, were known quantities.  They weren't our allies by any stretch of the imagination, but both were less than full fleged active enemies of the U. S. Khadaffy had gotten the message.  He was toothless.

Now I kow Obama is president, but I think his council with John McCain was crucial to Libay, Egypt, and Syria  McCain is an unfortunate reality.  From "our side" of the isle he pulls such unmitigated garbage that it makes us look bad.  He's a Republican, and what he does is considered to be Republican policy.  The media will describe him as a Conservative, the big double whammy when you're trying to discredit the Republican party and Conservatives.

McCain's advice was wrong headed.  There was no impetus for us to help the gihadists destabalize the Middle-East, and yet McCain/Obama did just that.

As for Hussein, he had been cruzing for a bruising for over a decade.  After 09/11, it was time to address that situation.  He was removed from office, and a stable government replaced him.  I supported it then, and I still do.  He was a threat to his own people, his neighbors, and the region.  According to him he was also supporting terrorism around the world.  Wrong thing to telegraph when terrorists are doing things like those on 09/11/2001 did.

Thus, if Assad and Russia smiting ISIS is unpalatable, then the only thing is for the West to do something about it. Smite ISIS. Drive them to their doom and smash them so hard that the genetic memory of Jihadi is imprinted with what happens when the West decides to act.  I agree.

Unfortunately, it appears that the West is not willing to do much. At least so far. Which reminds me of the story of the good Samaritan (there's a reason he is called a GOOD Samaritan). Before he came along and helped the injured man, two men who were 'holy' passed him without offering aid. Only the GOOD Samaritan decided to do anything.

While Russia is not 'nice' and Assad is a veritable monster, the thing is if the West will not do squat then it better not complain when others fill that void (for good or ill, as countries always have their own interests and I'm sure Russia is not doing it for CSR or goodwill). If the West will not step up, then it really shouldn't be screaming and shouting.  I agree with these thoughts also.

It would be like the two holy men chastising the good Samaritan for assisting the injured man they themselves had just walked past.  I see some diffrences, but essentially I agree with your premise here.  I know what you mean.

What's ironic is this ...someday the West will rue that it never squashed ISIS back when it would have been simple to do so. A saying from my native land is that 'the best time to kill a crocodile is when it is in its egg.'

However, it appears the West prefers fighting off 18 foot scaled leviathans rather than smashing soft crackly teeny weeny eggs!!!!   I agree here also.  Good point.

[ETL]

"Russia tells Washington: talk to us over Syria or risk 'unintended incidents'"

Might be that Russia already has what they wanted and needed from Obama: nuke and missile defense deals, etc. So even though the Commie-in-Chief basically shares the same 'new international order' aims with Moscow and the ChiComs (weaker US, stronger Russia and China), they're telling him 'get the blank out of the way, jerk, we don't need you anymore'.

[VeniVidiVici]

It’s funny that Liberal Democrats argue that they want Assad gone but they wanted Saddam to stay.

[BeadCounter]

I don’t agree with Obama’s position but it sure isn’t us who created a civil war that was happening 2 years before we even looked at that conflict. The Civil War started in 2011, ISIS didn’t even appear on the scene for another 1 or 2.

Putin couldn’t even win in Chechnya without making a Muslim Gangster in charge, let alone, a lot of people think the apartment bombings that preceded the 2nd Chechen war were staged by the government.

Putin has attacked a largely Christian nation in Ukraine and one that doesn’t have many Muslims at that.

[caww]

This is what I understand currently the political environment is regarding Syria....

....US and EU want Russia to join the coalition against ISIS

....US and EU nor Russia wants the Syrian Army to fall to ISIS

....Russia wants Syrian Army to be part of the Coalition against ISIS

....Russia wants Assad to consider ‘power sharing’ with the Rebels through Diplomacy...(currently underway)... before attacking ISIS.

....US does NOT want Power shared rather Regime change..Assad out....no Diplomacy before attacking ISIS

....Russia’s intentions are safe guarding Assad’s “elected” Soverign state Government...Iran now assisting Russia to do that.

....US and EU fighting alongside Syrian Rebel Army bombing against ISIS in Syria, while Assad forces along with Gulf Oil Countries Bombing against ISIS in Syria ...

....ALL parties want a coalition against ISIS.

....A ‘diplomatic solution’ would put an end to regime change which does not satisfy the US officials...

---

The US has their Transiante Officials ‘outside’ Syria to assume Government of Syria if Assad falls.

The Syrian Rebels have their Officials ‘Inside’ Syria to Assume Government of Syria if Assad falls.

US says Russian involvement would destablize the country ...yet US is fighting there also????...Russia has always supported ASSAD.

US wants regime change ahead of the urgency of ridding the areas of ISIS????

---

US and Eu want to get rid of ASSAD but keep the Syrian Institutions in place...unlike in Libya...

Assad is the head of the State legally, politically, and morally responsible for what is happening in Syria now.. under his watch Syria has come apart...It’s Only the Syrian people who determen Assads legitimacy...

Remember Petraous said that the US should be arming Alqiada to fight Assad????...against a sitting President????

So where are the Syrian people that’s claimed by the Us that Assad has lost his power??? Are they fighting ...no they’re in Germany or in flight from their own country to “find a better life”....

If the Syrian people want regime change then they need to appoint their own transitional Government and have an election... which was agreed on in 2012.... the US walked away saying it’s a conflict zone so there can’t be elections...yet they had them many times while Aphganistan was in conflict.???

This is a cold we see playing out in Syria between Saudi and Iran....for the Caliphate leadership...be it Sunni or Shite that wins in the end.

[BeadCounter]

We created a mess? Guess I missed 2 years of a civil war that began in 2011 win we were active there NOT.

[Mariner]

" Imagine the regional anal sphincter factor when Russia decides to “temporarily” occupy the Golan"

Ridiculous.

Russia cannot project and supply a force sufficient to do that. They could not even feign it.

[caww]

One other significant matter...

Alqiada has apparently just declared officially war with ISIS....????

[ETL]

"Seems as if Putin is about to take on the job that Obama refuses to do."

Typical Putinista Troll response: Win the trust of anti-Obama folks by (rightfully) bashing Obama, while at the same time kissing KGB Putin's butt and making him out to be a hero, defending him on anything and everything, no matter how deplorable his actions.

The Kremlin’s Troll Army: Moscow is financing legions of pro-Russia Internet commenters:

A June article by Max Seddon of BuzzFeed reported the Kremlin was spending millions of dollars to pay English-speaking Russians to promote President Vladimir Putin and his policies in U.S. media like Fox News broadcasting and The Huffington Post and Politico news sites. Trolls are reportedly expected to manage multiple fake accounts and post on news articles 50 times a day, often with sentiments as simplistic as “Putin makes Obama look stupid and weak!”

http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2014/08/the-kremlins-troll-army/375932/
____________________________

Documents Show How Russia’s Troll Army Hit America:

http://www.buzzfeed.com/maxseddon/documents-show-how-russias-troll-army-hit-america
____________________________

“Trolls are reportedly expected to manage multiple fake accounts and post on news articles 50 times a day, often with sentiments as simplistic as “Putin makes Obama look stupid and weak!”...”

They do this only in an attempt to win the trust of anti-Obama folks -- a clever/sneaky way to add credibility to their pro-Russia, pro-Putin BS.
Yet it seems to work on some of us! In reality, Obama is the best thing that has happened to Russia in a long time.
____________________________

Thank you, Comrade...

Your check is on the way!

[BeadCounter]

John Bolton’s Gatestone Institute:

Assad slaughtering Christians: http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/2884/assad-slaughtering-syrian-christians

Assad has killed more than ISIS in 2015: http://gulfnews.com/news/mena/syria/al-assad-still-more-ruthless-than-daesh-1.1581098

Syrian Opposition meet Russian Foreign Minister in Moscow: http://www.allmediany.com/news/53464-syrian-opposition-lead-meets-russian-foreign-minister-in-moscow

Syria Daily, June 2: Assad’s Bombs Aid Islamic State Offensive in Aleppo Province: http://eaworldview.com/2015/06/syria-daily-assads-bombs-aid-islamic-state-offensive-in-aleppo-province/

[tcrlaf]

The check to EuromaidanPR from Soros must have cleared. Or are you working in the NextWave boiler room?

[caww]

The US had political organizers on the ground before the uprising Bead, as with Ukraine, Libya, Egypt and others...we are present before during protests, and after.

We need to remember that the ‘International Power Leaders’ put very little significance on the people of the countries they pursue to increase their leverage and power on the world stage.

[tcrlaf]

“The US had political organizers on the ground before the uprising Bead, as with Ukraine, Libya, Egypt and others”

DIRECT US involvement in destabilizing Syria isn’t clear. What IS clear is that the Soros NGO’s were active in Syria before this began.

Given the Regime’s already harsh attitude and actions toward dissent, and growing religious animosities, it didn’t take a lot to tip it over into open civil war.

[DoughtyOne]

I don’t really find anything to object to in your comments. I think they’re pretty much on target. I do believe there is danger in Russia being there, but I’d say so based on the idea we shouldn’t be there, and the fact that we are is the problem.

McCain’s advise to Obama was 1980s and 1990s based. That old world reality had changed, and McCain was still thinking ousting Khadaffy and Assad were excellent moves.

I think that was wrong, and it is in large part responsible for some of the outcomes we have seen.

It’s such a shame we didn’t retire McCain in 2010.

[BeadCounter]

We had political organizers in Syria yet, people criticize this administration for not voicing opposition to protesters being crushed in Syria and Iran. Okay. I know that was the case that people criticized Obama for not speaking against the protests crushed in Iran.

[caww]

(((......” I do believe there is danger in Russia being there, but I’d say so based on the idea we shouldn't’t be there, and the fact that we are is the problem”....))))

Well that's just it...However Russia does have a “right” being there because of the treaties made for years with the Assad Leadership.......Of course the US/EU don't want those treaties to stand because they do not “fit” in their Agenda for the Globalist Region...therefore Assad must come down, in their mind, thus that will also cripple Russia's Ports advantages and Land-lock Russia.

Throw into the mix the Saudi (Sunni) Iranian (Shite) war to see who gets the leadership of the Caliphate and dibs to negotiate about Syria leadership......if Assad falls both will make a mad rush to Damascus to see who wins! If the wrong group gets there....we'll see the Destruction of Damascus as is written....just a matter of time. If that does happen...Might also be the trigger for Russia, since Syria's so close to Israel, to make their dash against Israel as pay back...with the Muslim Hoards along side.

IMO Russia will be defeated for Europe will surely rise then with ALL it's might along with the USA....and send Russia back home "enraged" where she will regroup for the final hit.

Meanwhile we'll see a Phony Peaceful agreement with Israel...by the man of the hour....as Europe continues to NOW to orchestrate the Third World Muslims into place.

Nasty business going on by International Leaders who haven't a clue whose hand is guiding them...and the brazen idea they think they can control this.

[ETL]

Soros finances anti-Americans, not anti-Putinistas.

[DoughtyOne]

I pretty much agree with your comments. Anyone wanting to point something out for clarification, I’d be open to doing that.

Israel had become the big issue here, now that the E.U. has made it’s stand on a one state solution.

That sounds a lot like “Final Solution” to me, and frankly if Europe is going to buy into that mindset, Russia can have ‘em.