Obama: Climate Deniers Who Ignore Science Are on ‘Their Own Shrinking Island’

[[As for the 100 reasons link, many are just facts that debunk various myths]]

That’s what I said in my post=- and many are just opinions- but many of them are actual facts that prove man is not causing climate change

[[That list is good not for “proving” CO2 doesn’t cause warming but for proving that CO2 makes no difference whether or not it causes warming]]

No sir- some of htep oints make that point, however many do not- they make the point CO2 does NOT cause warming

I’ll ask one more time- How can 0.0037% of our atmosphere capture enough heat and then back radiate a fraction of that captured heat to cause global climate change?

Same way that 0.028% CO2 warmed the atmosphere before mankind was ever in the picture. And then there were the ice ages where the world cooled, then the CO2 dropped, then the world cooled some more. If you look carefully at the lag you see it is not just lag but overlap. There is no dispute that warming causes more CO2. But it only causes a little (5-10 ppm per degree C of warming). There is also no scientific dispute that CO2 causes warming. Run any simple line-by-line atmospheric column with and without CO2 and the column is much cooler without it.

The only dispute is whether an increase in CO2 from present levels will cause serious warming. The answer is no. The main reason is that the models are wrong, they presume that the warming is always amplified by increased water vapor. But water vapor is a function of the planetary weather, not temperature.

[[Same way that 0.028% CO2 warmed the atmosphere before mankind was ever in the picture.]]

Psssst- warming happened FIRST- then CO2 rose (and it was much more than 0.028%- CO2 was 1200 ppm, ad there was still cooling and warming during those periods)

[[If you look carefully at the lag you see it is not just lag but overlap]]

I’ve looked at the ice core sample results nd there is no lag- the samples are clear- CO2 rose well after temps rose

[[There is also no scientific dispute that CO2 causes warming.]]

Sure none among the government sponsored LIARS- but there is PLENTY of scientific dispute about CO2 in the amounts present In the atmosphere being capable of causing warming- There is NOT enough of it to capture enough heat, and back radiate it to earth to do ANYTHING regarding global temperatures- Temps rose ALL on their own- then CO2 rose, while temps were still on an upward trend-

[[The only dispute is whether an increase in CO2 from present levels will cause serious warming.]]

Nonsense- there is still the dispute that CO2 in our atmosphere at such small amounts is the cause of climate change

You sound like the LIARS who claim “The issue is settled” (because we say it is so DESPITE the myriad of evidence against it being settled)

[[The main reason is that the models are wrong, they presume that the warming is always amplified by increased water vapor. But water vapor is a function of the planetary weather, not temperature.]]

Oh really?

from your own type of website, NASA no less:

[[Water Vapor Confirmed as Major Player in Climate Change

Water vapor is known to be Earth’s most abundant greenhouse gas, but the extent of its contribution to global warming has been debated. Using recent NASA satellite data, researchers have estimated more precisely than ever the heat-trapping effect of water in the air, validating the role of the gas as a critical component of climate change.]]

http://www.nasa.gov/topics/earth/features/vapor_warming.html

[[I’ll ask one more time- How can 0.0037% of our atmosphere capture enough heat and then back radiate a fraction of that captured heat to cause global climate change?

Same way that 0.028% CO2 warmed the atmosphere before mankind was ever in the picture.]]

You really can’t answer the question, can you? As mentioned several times now, warming happens first, THEN CO2 rises- putting the lie to the claim that CO2 causes warming- by stating ‘the same way 0.028% did way back when’ you are continuing to perpetuate the lie that CO2 causes warming even In the face of the facts which show just the opposite- Can you not see that?

Number 4 comes with a caveat; HAVE YOUR OWN RELOADING EQUIPMENT AND SUPPLIES.

The NASA site does not dispute what I said which is that water vapor is controlled by the weather regime. Among the many reasons we are in an ice age (although interglacial at the moment) is that Antarctica is cut off from Australia, India, etc and can hold lots of ice. Greenland has been moving north and gaining ice. The Isthmus of Panama is closed cutting off the Pacific from the Atlantic causing more cold currents, etc. The little bit of CO2 we do have causes welcome warming in this environment. There is little doubt that without CO2 the planet would be mostly dry and frozen.

What it all adds up to is that geography, greenhouse gases like CO2 and solar activity determine the weather regime; the prevailing pattern of highs and lows, average dips in the jet stream, average strength of storms and thus the average water vapor. NASA says CO2 is a major player in "climate change", but that is missing the point. It is misleading because the climate is not changing. The reason for that is that geography is not changing, the sun isn't changing (much), and thus the weather patterns which dictate climate are not changing.

The level of CO2 is a little low as pointed out in the 100 reasons link that you posted. Any rise is welcome at this point. The current level keeps us from becoming a planet of ice, but a change in the level doesn't do much. The level changed a lot as recently as 8000 years ago and there was no detectable temperature change.

There is still a possibility that the rise in CO2 is natural, nothing is certain in science. But there are no natural causes that explain the rise, not vegetation, not volcanoes and not ocean warming. None of those are strong enough, even combined, to explain anything close to the rise we have seen and see every year (2-3 ppm per year which would require a large percentage of deforestation and/or hundreds of large volcanoes (every year) and/or 0.2-0.3C of ocean warming per year to have happened centuries ago. There is no evidence for any of those things.

PS: One m ore point- rising temps ALWAYS precede CO2 rises In the atmosphere by many many decades- proving that CO2 does NOT cause warming- Scientific evidence all points to this FACT

The globull warming activists refer to those of us that don't believe it's caused by man as "flat earthers." But they remind me of the "scientific" theory of "spontaneous generation" from the middle ages. Wrap a cloth around a piece of cheese and put it in a cabinet, come back later and open the cabinet and, voila! A rat has spontaneously generated! They believed that if two unrelated objects were found together, then one must cause the other.

[[The level of CO2 is a little low as pointed out in the 100 reasons link that you posted.]]

A ‘little low”?

[[The historical record indicates that CO2 levels have been significantly higher than they are now, being 25 times at 545 Ma, (million years ago) (Veizer. J. et al 2000).

The killer proof that CO2 does not drive climate is to be found during the Ordovician-

Silurian (450-420 Ma) and the Jurassic-Cretaceous periods (151-132 Ma), when CO2 levels were greater than 4000 ppmv (parts per million by volume) and about 2000
ppmv respectively4.

If the IPCC theory is correct there should have been runaway greenhouse induced global warming during these periods, but instead there was glaciation.

This unequivocally proves that CO2 does not drive climate, it can only be a minor player, swamped by other far more powerful influences.]]

http://www.lavoisier.com.au/articles/greenhouse-science/climate-change/mcclintock-proofnotco2-2009.pdf

[[There is still a possibility that the rise in CO2 is natural, nothing is certain in science. ]]

Considering that CO2 levels were able to reach 4000 ppm all by themselves I’d say yeah! There’s ‘a chance’.

[[NASA says CO2 is a major player in “climate change”, but that is missing the point. ]]

NASA IS LYING! CO2 rises ALWAYS follow rises In temperature- hundreds to thousands of years later-

There’s an old saying, one that NASA and ‘man-caused global warming’ LIARS ALL ignore

Correlation does not prove causation, but failure to correlate does disprove Causation- and so far not one single ‘man-caused global climate change’ advocate has been able to prove correlation- they simply make the claim and walk away from the discussion whenever evidence proves their correlation claims false

[[The level changed a lot as recently as 8000 years ago and there was no detectable temperature change.]]

The level has changed from 4000 ppm to 400 ppm, and life has survived fine and we haven’t frozen to death (which incidentally, had there been government sponsored ‘climatologists’ back then they would have been screaming about impending doom because the ppm was dropping rapidly, and claiming we were all going to freeze to death IF it ever got down to 400 ppm)